Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ER70S2 Vs ER70S6 Tig Filler

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • ER70S2 Vs ER70S6 Tig Filler

    I weld up machine parts for the inside of Winchester traps. I have been using ER70S2 and the wear factor on the sharp corners, I build up and after machining have lasted 6 - 8 years.

    My welding supply store tried to sell me ER70S6, saying it had more silicon and would flow better????

    My question is, will the weld be softer and wear faster????


    jim

  • #2
    Jim -

    Does the store manager go by the name Snake Doctor

    My understanding is that S6 is used where additional deoxidizing is needed - 4130 for example. S6 does contain roughly twice the Manganese & twice the Silicon of S2.

    According to AWS specs, S2 contains >97% Iron, S6 contains >96% Iron. For practical purposes, identical.

    There are lots of wear resistant wires available, but neither 70-S2 or 70-S6 falls into that category. Even so, 6-8 years is pretty decent life with a low cost filler. I'd stick with the S2.
    Barry Milton
    ____________________

    HTP Invertig 201
    HTP MIG2400

    Miller Trailblazer 302, Spoolmatic 30A, Suitcase 12RC
    Clarke Hotshot

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with Barry, after using S-2 for so long I doubt you would be happier with S-6, I find that the S-6 puddle is a bit too loose for me and prefer S-2 after using S-6 for almost 2 years. Wear should be about the same I think, others will know know whats best of what you are using it for.
      Regards, George

      Hobart Handler 210 w/DP3035 - Great 240V small Mig
      Hobart Handler 140 - Great 120V Mig
      Hobart Handler EZ125 - IMO the best 120V Flux Core only machine

      Miller Dynasty 200DX with cooler of my design, works for me
      Miller Spectrum 375 - Nice Cutter

      Comment


      • #4
        I think you'd like the S6. I don't like S2. It simply doesn't flow as well. It's worse about wanting to undercut at the edges of the bead than S6 is.

        Comment


        • #5
          i vote s-6 also, much more user friendly. unless its mig than i prefer the s-2 for clean material, but in the field er-80s-6, is the stuff i use. The er80 may be more wear resistant than the 70 only due to the higher tensile strength
          Trailblazer 302g
          coolmate4
          hf-251d-1
          super s-32p
          you can never know enough

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dyn88
            i vote s-6 also, much more user friendly. unless its mig than i prefer the s-2 for clean material, but in the field er-80s-6, is the stuff i use. The er80 may be more wear resistant than the 70 only due to the higher tensile strength
            Good point on the ER80.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by precisionworks
              Jim -

              Does the store manager go by the name Snake Doctor

              My understanding is that S6 is used where additional deoxidizing is needed - 4130 for example. S6 does contain roughly twice the Manganese & twice the Silicon of S2.

              According to AWS specs, S2 contains >97% Iron, S6 contains >96% Iron. For practical purposes, identical.

              There are lots of wear resistant wires available, but neither 70-S2 or 70-S6 falls into that category. Even so, 6-8 years is pretty decent life with a low cost filler. I'd stick with the S2.
              I disagree. I use -2 when I'm most worried about fighting impurities. -6 has more silicon (not much for manganese) but -2 has titanium, zirconium, and aluminum added where as -6 doesn't. This is why I tend to choose it for normalized 4130 that's used as welded. I do prefer -6 on mild steel and run it exclusively through my mig machine.

              For the case at hand, just stick with what's working. The differences are very very small.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Billet Benny
                I disagree. I use -2 when I'm most worried about fighting impurities. -6 has more silicon (not much for manganese) but -2 has titanium, zirconium, and aluminum added where as -6 doesn't. This is why I tend to choose it for normalized 4130 that's used as welded. I do prefer -6 on mild steel and run it exclusively through my mig machine.

                For the case at hand, just stick with what's working. The differences are very very small.
                But isn't the higher silicon there so that it attaches itself to impurities as it floats up to the top of the puddle?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Engloid
                  But isn't the higher silicon there so that it attaches itself to impurities as it floats up to the top of the puddle?
                  Yes, but it's not the only deoxidizer there is. The large amount of silicon in -6 is much more noticeable in fluidity than deoxidizing. Silicon is a main ingredient in making a filler more free-flowing. When it comes to number of deoxidizers, -2 has more.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've never seen Rockwell hardness test data on any common TIG filler, but would be surprised if ER70 & ER80 were much different. Tensile strength - certainly. Hardness, probably not.

                    The easiest way to make steel (and steel filler) hardenable is to increase the amount of free carbon. At welding temperatures, that carbon transforms into carbides which are extremely hard. But very hard materials are prone to crack, so manufacturers have found other ways to make TIG filler that is harder, more wear resistant, and not prone to cracking.

                    The easiest way to make the filler harder is to include hard, wear resistant alloys in the filler mix. Chromium, Nickel, Molybdenum, etc., add hardness that is far above normal steel hardness.

                    Higher tensile strength often comes with greater hardness & better wear resistance. But not always. If wear resistance is a primary concern, a filler made for that purpose will give a harder, longer wearing surface than any of the 'normal' TIG fillers.
                    Barry Milton
                    ____________________

                    HTP Invertig 201
                    HTP MIG2400

                    Miller Trailblazer 302, Spoolmatic 30A, Suitcase 12RC
                    Clarke Hotshot

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by precisionworks
                      I've never seen Rockwell hardness test data on any common TIG filler, but would be surprised if ER70 & ER80 were much different. Tensile strength - certainly. Hardness, probably not.

                      The easiest way to make steel (and steel filler) hardenable is to increase the amount of free carbon. At welding temperatures, that carbon transforms into carbides which are extremely hard. But very hard materials are prone to crack, so manufacturers have found other ways to make TIG filler that is harder, more wear resistant, and not prone to cracking.

                      The easiest way to make the filler harder is to include hard, wear resistant alloys in the filler mix. Chromium, Nickel, Molybdenum, etc., add hardness that is far above normal steel hardness.

                      Higher tensile strength often comes with greater hardness & better wear resistance. But not always. If wear resistance is a primary concern, a filler made for that purpose will give a harder, longer wearing surface than any of the 'normal' TIG fillers.
                      Barry,

                      Nice information ... thanks. I think that most fillers are for joining anyway and hardness is not normally an issue. JMO.
                      Regards, George

                      Hobart Handler 210 w/DP3035 - Great 240V small Mig
                      Hobart Handler 140 - Great 120V Mig
                      Hobart Handler EZ125 - IMO the best 120V Flux Core only machine

                      Miller Dynasty 200DX with cooler of my design, works for me
                      Miller Spectrum 375 - Nice Cutter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        welding wire

                        dear sir

                        We are welding wire er70s-6 producer in turkey.Our high quality wire are being sold all over the world.
                        We would like to trade with you.

                        regards
                        fatih

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trap Doctor View Post
                          I weld up machine parts for the inside of Winchester traps. I have been using ER70S2 and the wear factor on the sharp corners, I build up and after machining have lasted 6 - 8 years.

                          My welding supply store tried to sell me ER70S6, saying it had more silicon and would flow better????

                          My question is, will the weld be softer and wear faster????


                          jim
                          Here is what Lincoln says:



                          Lincoln ER70S-6 ER70S-6 For TIG welding, LincolnŽ ER70S-6 has high levels of silicon and manganese to be used on slightly contaminated base materials. Higher levels of silicon and manganese allow for better puddle fluidity and excellent wetting action.

                          Lincoln ER70S-2 ER70S-2 Triple deoxidized wire containing zirconium, titanium, and aluminum in addition to silicon and manganese. Produces x-ray quality welds over most surface conditions. Recommended for TIG welding on all grades of mild steel.


                          Not an exact comparison of ingredients but hopefully helpful.

                          Griff

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Er70 sx

                            Why don't you just try both. It's not like this rod is hard to get or expensive.
                            If your LWS guy wants you to try it ask for some free filler rods - bet you get a whole bunch.

                            IMO ER70-S6 is the best all round rod to have in your shop - IMO it's good for more applications and does flow nice.
                            Bobcat 225
                            The rest is bright RED "Tig & GMAW"
                            Just got a new Hypertherm 30

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              so S-2 is better for out of position welds? I have a good bit of vertical welding on 16 gauge sheet. Guess I should get some 0.035" wire for this (GTAW) I have 1/16" S-2 for tube but this seems coarse for some of the sections where rust has compromised thickness.

                              As I understand steel metallurgy, silicon tends to float oxides to the surface of the pool where Al, Ti, Mn stay in the weld. This may make S2 a bit harder on the wearing properties.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X