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Syncrowave 300 Gas Control Issues Replacement Relays and Circuit Availability???

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  • #16
    My mistake, the 12v relay ends in 10-12. I paid $7 each. You can get them on eBay but expect to pay more. Those last 2 #s mean 10 amp 12 volt

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    • #17
      All, I apologize for the delay. The last week offered many opportunities. Another driver decided to occupy the same space as my daughter. The impact totaled her car, she is doing better but dealing with all the things that go with an impact at 55 MPH.

      Old welder ... Thank you for the update on the 12V relay P/N. I have found the relays on Newark for $10 to $12 each (plus shipping). I believe I will order these and replace the one 12V relay and both 24V relays on board 052 791 as all of the contacts are badly pitted .... unless you think this is not a good idea.

      ryanjones2150 ... Have you has time to check out the relays you have?

      Aeronca41 ... Have you had time to research the schematic diagrams?

      Again thank you all
      Best wishes for a Happy 2018

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      • #18
        Sorry man, forgot all about ya....

        Here's what I have:

        Miller part number 006393, enclosed relay, dpdt 10amp 120vac (these are similar to what I used to repair my old 330 abp, this particular relay is not used in my machine, only those with a spot timer)

        Philips ECG open body rly1345, dpdt, 30amp 110vdc (these are huge, like the size of a lemon, open body and used)

        IDEC "ice cube" style relay with separate base, rh2b-UL dc100-110, dpdt, 10amp, 110vdc (I have two of these)

        You can google any of those part numbers, well
        maybe not the PhilipsECG one, and find the specs.

        Glad to hear your daughter is ok. 55mph is a helluva impact.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by WallyW View Post
          All, I apologize for the delay. The last week offered many opportunities. Another driver decided to occupy the same space as my daughter. The impact totaled her car, she is doing better but dealing with all the things that go with an impact at 55 MPH.

          Old welder ... Thank you for the update on the 12V relay P/N. I have found the relays on Newark for $10 to $12 each (plus shipping). I believe I will order these and replace the one 12V relay and both 24V relays on board 052 791 as all of the contacts are badly pitted .... unless you think this is not a good idea.

          ryanjones2150 ... Have you has time to check out the relays you have?

          Aeronca41 ... Have you had time to research the schematic diagrams?

          Again thank you all
          Best wishes for a Happy 2018
          yes--see post#11 in this thread for the first troubleshooting step. Don't get zapped.

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          • #20
            Aeronca41 I must have been replying to your #10 post (mine is #12) when you added the #11 post, I was just 3 minutes after you. After that I was looking to see what was added to the end of the string and did not look above...A rookie mistake I suppose. Currently the gas is not sticking on but I do not have post flow.

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            • #21
              Thank you for looking, from what I can see none of these relays will work for me. Hopefully we will have my daughter back in a new to her car this weekend and I can get back to troubleshooting this problem. With the $700 rebate (ending 12/31/17) it is tempting to just buy a Diversion 180 but I know I won't be happy.

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              • #22
                I would agree with that statement. Give it the old college try at repairing that old mammerjammer first. Have you started with Wayne's recommendation of checking voltage on pins A and B of CR2? I have no idea what he's talking about, but I assure you that he does. If I was you, I'd utilize his advice.

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                • #23
                  Wally--Will try to dig in a bit more over the next couple of days. Today is fully booked--introducing a couple of young guys to MIG and OA welding/brazing; they are pretty pumped and it will be a full day.

                  Is it safe to say you are no longer having the gas sticking on; just lack of postflow now? Could be that just using the welder has limbered up a sticky gas valve, solving the "sticking on" problem, but it sounds like there is a bad relay or timer that is causing lack of postflow. Will look when I get some down time.

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                  • #24
                    Ryan, after reading several posts as a guest Wayne's answers were the reason I chose to join this forum.
                    I'm going from memory here because I checked this several weeks ago when this problem started. There was no voltage at relay CR2 pins A to B and there was gas flowing (Just to make sure I understand what you are asking. It looks like Pins A and B are the 24V coil or control side of the relay. The foot pedal switch completes this circuit causing the 2 NC contacts to open and the 2 NO contacts to close ... correct?). The gas stopped when the power switch was turned off so I ruled out the gas solenoid being mechanically stuck and believed CR2 was the culprit. I carefully removed the cover from the CR2 Relay to look at the contacts hoping to find a smoking gun and found that this is not a 3PDT as described in the parts list but a 2PDT with a circuit board packaged under the same cover (See Pic). I did find a New Old Stock Miller p/n 000 174 CR2 relay for a reasonable price so I purchased and installed it. Now the gas flow was coinciding with the use of the foot pedal however I noted no post flow. I then reinstalled the original CR2 relay and again the gas would turn on and off with the pedal still no post flow just as it had done when I installed the NOS CR2 relay. I had this gas flow "always on" problem once before, it stayed flowing one day as I was wrapping up for the night and it worked correctly the next use.

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                    • #25
                      Some machines had variants with different features. Probably why your parts lost shows a 3pdt when it actually has a 2pdt. Might be a variant with a spot timer or something. It's of no consequence at this point. Does it have adjustable post flow? If it does, try fiddling with that control, might have some schmoo on it.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by WallyW View Post
                        Ryan, after reading several posts as a guest Wayne's answers were the reason I chose to join this forum.
                        I'm going from memory here because I checked this several weeks ago when this problem started. There was no voltage at relay CR2 pins A to B and there was gas flowing (Just to make sure I understand what you are asking. It looks like Pins A and B are the 24V coil or control side of the relay. The foot pedal switch completes this circuit causing the 2 NC contacts to open and the 2 NO contacts to close ... correct?). The gas stopped when the power switch was turned off so I ruled out the gas solenoid being mechanically stuck and believed CR2 was the culprit. I carefully removed the cover from the CR2 Relay to look at the contacts hoping to find a smoking gun and found that this is not a 3PDT as described in the parts list but a 2PDT with a circuit board packaged under the same cover (See Pic). I did find a New Old Stock Miller p/n 000 174 CR2 relay for a reasonable price so I purchased and installed it. Now the gas flow was coinciding with the use of the foot pedal however I noted no post flow. I then reinstalled the original CR2 relay and again the gas would turn on and off with the pedal still no post flow just as it had done when I installed the NOS CR2 relay. I had this gas flow "always on" problem once before, it stayed flowing one day as I was wrapping up for the night and it worked correctly the next use.
                        Sorry--missed/forgot the part where the gas shut of when you turned off power. Not a sticky solenoid valve. Will print out your manual tonight so I can look at it without being tied to the computer.

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                        • #27
                          I agree, there are several different features on the Syncrowaves (mine is a base model 300). More than anything I was surprised to see the little board in the relay housing. Why not just put an off the shelf 3PDT relay in there (even if only 2 poles are used) and incorporate the board somewhere else? I my mind that would keep the cost of service parts down, but this way the part is Miller specific (I believe).
                          Yes, mine does have adjustable post flow (no Pre-Flow), my first thought was to "cycle" the control in hope of "cleaning" it. Later, I did check it with a DVOM.

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                          • #28
                            Relay makers sometimes include timers in their "packages" to make it cheaper and easier for engineers to choose their product over someone else's since it reduces the users' design time. Not uncommon.

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                            • #29
                              Wally--haven't forgotten about you, but I care for my handicapped wife and we've had a couple of small challenges this week. Will get to it as soon as I can. Don't give up! :-)

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                              • #30
                                Thank you for note ... no hurry. It has been below 0 here in Wisconsin and plenty of other things have been breaking. This is just a hobby welder. Another question has come up CR 50 /CR 51 are rated 24VDC 25A per Miller and CR 52 is rated 12VDC no amperage given. All 3 are on the Post Flow & HF Timer Curcuit Card Miller part number 052 790. Suggested (in this thread) replacement relays are R48-5D10-24 and R48-5D10-12 (respectively) are both rated at 10A. l haven't been able to find any with a higher amperage rating. Any thoughts?

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