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cleaning up my Millermatic 211 and drive motor assembly question

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  • #46
    Originally posted by OscarJr View Post
    Thanks. Should I email Miller first, and then let them give me direct instructions on how to proceed?
    I would. They will issue a return RMA and send you a new one.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by MAC702 View Post

      In what Miller documentation will I find that a tension setting of 3 means to change the liner?
      I always thought it was common knowledge that if you have to keep applying pressure that the liner was getting dirty. If you start at 1 and keep increasing to get the same results there must be something going on? Right?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by 1997CST View Post
        I always thought it was common knowledge that if you have to keep applying pressure that the liner was getting dirty. If you start at 1 and keep increasing to get the same results there must be something going on? Right?
        So a Certified Miller Tech is saying that the owner's manual recommended starting setting is when the liner should be changed. Arbitrarily.

        And the situation you are describing here is NOT what any of your "replace the liner" posts have been in reply to.

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        • #49
          Oscar, I watched the video Miller has of the 211 HERE, at the 1:23 mark they show the drive in operation, is this the amount of run out your unit has?
          Richard

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          • #50
            Originally posted by 1997CST View Post

            Sorry I missed this post. When the liner gets dirty with shop dust, rust from wire, wire lube etc the machine spits and sputters. So the operator cranks down a little more on the drive rolls. New machines have a scale on the drive roll tension. 1-4. when you get to 3 it is recommended to change the liner.
            So when you get too much tension it causes the board to pull too many amps. There is no protection on the board from the motor pulling too many amps. I've seen customers put washers in the tensioner to increase tension or crank them tight with pliers. if you notice you have your drive rolls cranked down all the way you are putting way too much pressure on your PC Board. Every welding supply company stocks liners for guns, just not in the same spot as consumables.
            We all get that. Most of us here (that is commenting on this thread so far) have many many years of experience. Where you are getting so much resistance is because it's like you didn't watch the video posted up that clearly shows the shaft on the drive motor is bent or poorly assembled/machined.
            Did you see the video? I'm rather certain that Oscar didn't bend his shaft with spring tension!!
            Please, go back and watch the video on post #5 and notice the shaft, and then give us your professional opinion. I'm thinking that thing is JUNK!!!

            www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
            MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
            Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
            Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

            Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
            Miller 30-A Spoolgun
            Miller WC-115-A
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            Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
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            • #51
              Originally posted by Ltbadd View Post
              Oscar, I watched the video Miller has of the 211 HERE, at the 1:23 mark they show the drive in operation, is this the amount of run out your unit has?
              Their shaft isn't bent. It may only be the chamfer is done after the machining process on the drive rolls.

              www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
              Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
              MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
              Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
              Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

              Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
              Miller 30-A Spoolgun
              Miller WC-115-A
              Miller Spectrum 300
              Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
              Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by MAC702 View Post

                So a Certified Miller Tech is saying that the owner's manual recommended starting setting is when the liner should be changed. Arbitrarily.

                And the situation you are describing here is NOT what any of your "replace the liner" posts have been in reply to.
                I really think you are putting far too much thought into a liner. I come here to help .I have done this for 20 years, if you don't want my advice, don't take it. See the last sentence.

                Check Liner Condition
                The gun liner should be the proper size for the wire being used and should also be clean and free of dust and debris. Over-tensioned wire will flake off and place excessive particles into the liner, clogging it up. Using special wire lubricants can also cause the wire to become ‘wet’ and dust can collect on the wire dragging it into the liner as well.

                Wire manufacturers have already properly prepared the surface of the wire for maximum feedability and adding or even subtracting that can affect the weld quality. If you insist on using something to “lubricate” or “wipe off” the wire before it goes into the system, a cotton cloth with a clothes pin would be best so that there is no contamination of the wire and dust cannot collect on a ‘wet” surface. Liners are wear items and should be replaced on a regular schedule

                Last edited by 1997CST; 12-22-2017, 08:50 AM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by FusionKing View Post

                  Their shaft isn't bent. It may only be the chamfer is done after the machining process on the drive rolls.
                  Ok, seeing Oscar's video I may have not watched that when it was posted, big difference.
                  Richard

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by 1997CST View Post

                    I really think you are putting far too much thought into a liner. I come here to help .I have done this for 20 years, if you don't want my advice, don't take it. See the last sentence.

                    Check Liner Condition
                    The gun liner should be the proper size for the wire being used and should also be clean and free of dust and debris. Over-tensioned wire will flake off and place excessive particles into the liner, clogging it up. Using special wire lubricants can also cause the wire to become ‘wet’ and dust can collect on the wire dragging it into the liner as well.

                    Wire manufacturers have already properly prepared the surface of the wire for maximum feedability and adding or even subtracting that can affect the weld quality. If you insist on using something to “lubricate” or “wipe off” the wire before it goes into the system, a cotton cloth with a clothes pin would be best so that there is no contamination of the wire and dust cannot collect on a ‘wet” surface. Liners are wear items and should be replaced on a regular schedule
                    Nice condescending, puffed-up, take-my-ball-and-leave, strawman argument that has nothing to do with challenging you about "first thing to do is change a liner" and "change the liner when your drive roll tension gets to 3." We also now know you sell liners. These statements have not been retracted, though there was some back-pedalling shortly afterward.

                    You forgot to cite from where you are quoting, despite repeated requests.

                    The current Millermatic 140 owner's manual mentions the liner in the instructions on how to replace it. This is right above how to replace the switch in the gun. How often should I "regularly replace" this switch as part of normal maintenance, too?

                    It next mentions the liner if it needs to be cleaned because you've gotten oil in it from ignoring the instructions on not putting oil on your wire.

                    It then mentions liners as replacement parts. As mentioned here, we've seen kinked liners that needed to be replaced, or different sized liners desired for specializing in certain wire sizes.
                    Last edited by MAC702; 12-22-2017, 09:18 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by MAC702 View Post

                      Nice condescending, puffed-up, take-my-ball-and-leave, strawman argument that has nothing to do with challenging you about "first thing to do is change a liner" and "change the liner when your drive roll tension gets to 3." We also now know you sell liners. These statements have not been retracted, though there was some back-pedalling shortly afterward.

                      You forgot to cite from where you are quoting, despite repeated requests.

                      The current Millermatic 140 owner's manual mentions the liner in the instructions on how to replace it. This is right above how to replace the switch in the gun. How often should I "regularly replace" this switch as part of normal maintenance, too?

                      It next mentions the liner if it needs to be cleaned because you've gotten oil in it from ignoring the instructions on not putting oil on your wire.

                      It then mentions liners as replacement parts. As mentioned here, we've seen kinked liners that needed to be replaced, or different sized liners desired for specializing in certain wire sizes.
                      You got me Mac! I confess, I just came here to sell liners. I'm a liner salesman and liners sales are slow this time of year. I make a huge commission on all the liner sales I make on this board. I made up all I said. You got me! Now if you would like to continue to beat a dead horse please do it by yourself.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ltbadd View Post
                        Oscar, I watched the video Miller has of the 211 HERE, at the 1:23 mark they show the drive in operation, is this the amount of run out your unit has?
                        No, that one looks more like the one we have at my work, with very little wobble. Mine has more than that, as does the replacement drive assembly I purchased. On mine, there is a clear discernable difference between the "upstroke" and the "downstroke", as I call them. It loses grip on the downstroke (because the tension spring gets relaxed), and grips it up again on the upstroke.
                        HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                        Eastwood MIG175 w/spoolgun
                        Eastwood Versacut40 Plasma cutter

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                        • #57
                          Hey Oscar. I can't tell by the pictures, but does the new motor have a sealed gearbox. I'm wondering if the gearbox could be opened, inspected and possiibly repaired/modified, if Miller won't swap it for a new one.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by 1997CST View Post
                            You got me Mac! I confess, I just came here to sell liners. I'm a liner salesman and liners sales are slow this time of year. I make a huge commission on all the liner sales I make on this board. I made up all I said. You got me! Now if you would like to continue to beat a dead horse please do it by yourself.
                            Outstanding! You've polished your refusal to support your uncited claims with such idiomatic drama! Well done! Miller should be proud that you claim to be certified and represent them here.

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                            • #59
                              Oscars shaft is deff bent...Bob
                              Bob Wright

                              Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                              http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Metjunkie View Post
                                Hey Oscar. I can't tell by the pictures, but does the new motor have a sealed gearbox. I'm wondering if the gearbox could be opened, inspected and possiibly repaired/modified, if Miller won't swap it for a new one.
                                The gear box can be opened. The shaft is pressed into a cup bearing, so I'd have to look at it more carefully to see my options.
                                HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                                Eastwood MIG175 w/spoolgun
                                Eastwood Versacut40 Plasma cutter

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