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Shopmaster 300 & HF 251D TIG please help with set up for ALUM

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  • Shopmaster 300 & HF 251D TIG please help with set up for ALUM

    Hi Picked up the shop master a year ago been playing with it off and on ever since finally figured out how to Tig weld 18 gauge sheet metal for my car with it & can lay a nice bead on bench not so pretty on car lol oh well im learning. Ok well I figured out the Tig for steal so now I wanna figure out this AC deal of it on Aluminum.............................. SON OF A $%$#$%#$@#$@ thats hard or my welders junk! Naw last couple tries finally had me kind of laying out a bead staying shiny with out digging out the aluminum but now I am out of scrap Alum need to go find more and IM almost out of a big bottle of Argon already. See if this sounds right keep in mind I dont know squat about welding. HF set freq at about 65-70 current about 45-50 dig control set at 0 all on peddle not much to that machine kind of like using howitzer cannon for plinking. 3/16 alum sheet diamond plate and 3/16 filler rod pure tungsten 1/16 rod short #6 cup 15cfh pure Argon, Most all my welds look BLACK and look like some one dug them out of the alum with a Pick and hammer UGLY UGLY UGLY then out of now where I tried again as above and boom laid down 3 nice looking shiny beads but I cant add any rod to it just plops out and dies in blob never pools into a bead. I read in one of my manuals that came with the equipment it says on SOME machines Dig control is the Balance control when used in AC mode ON SOME MACHINES is the Shop Master that way? cause right now all I have is current and frequency to adjust ? Also Because of way machine doesn't want to lay down a bead is it possible machine is not hooked up right? could my ground be wrong? I believe I have machine set up with it set up DCEN and if my understanding is correct when I want to weld Aluminum I just switch the switch to AC and for steal back to GTAW and dont have to swap any cables or am I wrong???? and if im not wrong I bet something is wrong with my equipment. Thanks for any and all help in advance
    Last edited by Doright; 08-22-2014, 09:13 PM.

  • #2
    OK, you've learned that its impossible to tig aluminum without a hf box, as the weld goes everywhere but where you want it to go. however since HF is rather dangerous, your going to need a remote to turn it off and on. I didn't read most of your post though, kinda long. Maybe make it a little more simple.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cruizer View Post
      OK, you've learned that its impossible to tig aluminum without a hf box, as the weld goes everywhere but where you want it to go. however since HF is rather dangerous, your going to need a remote to turn it off and on. I didn't read most of your post though, kinda long. Maybe make it a little more simple.

      Your comment is about as useful as Tits on a bore hog
      If your not gonna read a persons post but yet offer comment your nothing more than a Punk with a CB radio that cant keep their mouth shut, a post ***** nothing more.

      But I believe I have found my own answers any way with my own research CCC and maybe a lill preheat and better heat sinks thanks for nothing tho.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Doright View Post
        Your comment is about as useful as Tits on a bore hog
        If your not gonna read a persons post but yet offer comment your nothing more than a Punk with a CB radio that cant keep their mouth shut, a post ***** nothing more.

        But I believe I have found my own answers any way with my own research CCC and maybe a lill preheat and better heat sinks thanks for nothing tho.
        Your original post was nonsensical...

        and...

        getting mad at Cruizer for his response was equally silly...

        You need to take a little time to study TIG theory... so you understand the process..

        Here is a good place to start..

        http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/gtawbook.pdf

        http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ur-skills/tig/


        Last edited by H80N; 08-24-2014, 10:33 AM.
        .

        *******************************************
        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

        My Blue Stuff:
        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200DX
        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
        Millermatic 200

        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

        Comment


        • #5
          Pretty much what I was saying, is that your post does not make much sense, so all I got was maybe half of it. maybe tell us exactly what you have, material, tungsten, gas, and if your hf is working. Maybe if you have ever welded before.

          Quite confused as to what you are asking.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by cruizer View Post
            Pretty much what I was saying, is that your post does not make much sense, so all I got was maybe half of it. maybe tell us exactly what you have, material, tungsten, gas, and if your hf is working. Maybe if you have ever welded before.

            Quite confused as to what you are asking.
            My head hurt halfway through the post.

            Comment


            • #7
              We want to help but you threw alot at us at once, Please be a little more direct with your questions so we can help.

              Unfortunately I don't have a shopmaster so I don't know how good they work but would guess it to be a low end tig because its not square wave or inverter technology so that's why Cruizer mentioned about the arc being all over the place.

              I have however ran my HF 251 High Freq box of my Trail blazer and it did work but not as good as the synchrowave that I had at the time and not even close to my Dynasty.

              The shop master will definitely run tig aluminum so when you say you cant add filler metal you either have the machine set up wrong, don't have it in the right mode or you don't know how to weld it.

              You need to be on AC with High Freq continuouse.

              As far as Cruizer goes, Please be a little more respectful, He helps a lot of people here and was trying to help you, You need to be a little more direct with your questions and we will do our best to help you.

              Regards, Portable Welder

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Doright View Post
                3/16 alum sheet diamond plate and 3/16 filler rod pure tungsten 1/16 rod short #6 cup 15cfh pure Argon, Most all my welds look BLACK and look like some one dug them out of the alum with a Pick and hammer UGLY UGLY UGLY then out of now where I tried again as above and boom laid down 3 nice looking shiny beads but I cant add any rod to it just plops out and dies in blob never pools into a bead.
                Try 1/8" filler max and maybe even 3/32".

                1/16" tungsten is too small for the amperage required to do 3/16" aluminum which is going to be between 180-200A. I would use 1/8" and nothing smaller than 3/32".

                From your description of what your filler rod is doing my guess is your torch angle is too much toward the filler and not toward the base material. This results in overheating the filler causing it to fall off the end instead of melting into the puddle as it should when you attempt to dip. Because it's too big for the task at hand, as soon as it falls off it cools in a blob on the base material.


                Smaller filler, larger tungsten, perhaps more amperage and change your torch angle to almost straight up.
                MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
                Syncrowave 180 SD
                Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
                *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
                *HF-251D-1
                *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
                PakMaster 100XL
                Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

                Comment


                • #9
                  I apologize I was very frustrated and upset at the time, all the money spent on machine and it didn't work, I thought I explained my problem as best I could.
                  I would appreciate your guys advise and help if you can forgive me for my short temper, and I apologize too those that I offended and will try to keep my frustrations in check.


                  Turned out I had a couple of problems I found:
                  1. The Spark gaps in back of Hi freq box were out of book limits I didnt clean them but did re adjust them to book specks.

                  2.While I was getting Argon gas though my torch its hose had a major leak in it. I have since fixed it and am now able to lay down some beads on aluminum. They are not peatiest beads but I am just starting out too. YAY!

                  New Problems and questions:
                  While on AC again just playing with 1/4'' thick piece of extruded angle aluminum just trying to lay beads on it. cleaned with acetone and SS brush.

                  I am Burning Pure Tungston into cup 1/16 & 3/16 current set right around 180 less when playing with 1/16 tungston gonna try 2% 3/16 Thoriated today.


                  My New question is about the adjustments I can make to the machine
                  On the shop master 300 I can play with Current and DIG force.

                  IS DIG FORCE AC Balance control on the Shopmaster 300????
                  It really messes up beads above 50 and my current is set right around 180 with 3/16 pure tungston. seams to work good. but burning tungston into cup.
                  I have been told to keep this adjustment set to Zero while welding steel.
                  Turning current down to much from 180 messes up bead. turning down Dig force much messes up bead and turning it up doesn't help much either.

                  ON my HF251-1
                  I can only play with frequency adjustment from what I read here on web sight, I guess I wanna be around 180? currently using it in-between 50 to 100 playing with it trying to learn exactly how it works and what it does.(Pin pointing arc?) adjustment on machine is 0-100 only, And I'm using it at about 70-80 seams to work best.


                  Panel and Remote switches
                  All of the machines adjustments have a remote/panel switch as well and switches are all set to remote positions currently. Even after reading Book for machine I am still confused as how Current works with this switch and a remote foot control.
                  Its my understanding I can leave knob set to zero and foot control controls current from zero to full 300 amps.(This doesnt work so well for me messes up start and bead) OR set it as I am now to a desired setting, which is what I am doing now Setting it to 180 on panel leaving switch in remote and foot control works from zero to 180 amps? or is it starting at 180 amps?


                  Thanks for any and all advise in advance

                  Dudley
                  Last edited by Doright; 02-18-2015, 01:50 PM. Reason: added info

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Glad you are starting to get a few things sorted.. but you need to read your manuals and the TIG booklet

                    http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/gtawbook.pdf


                    IS DIG FORCE AC Balance control on the Shopmaster 300????

                    No it has nothing to do with AC Balance in TIG... it is for Stick welding

                    It really messes up beads above 50 and my current is set right around 180 with 3/16 pure tungston. seams to work good. but burning tungston into cup.
                    I have been told to keep this adjustment set to Zero while welding steel.
                    Turning current down to much from 180 messes up bead. turning down Dig force much messes up bead and turning it up doesn't help much either.

                    ON my HF251-1
                    I can only play with frequency adjustment from what I read here on web sight,


                    Sorry .. you cannot adjust the Frequency.. Just the HF intensity

                    I guess I wanna be around 180? currently using it in-between 50 to 100 playing with it trying to learn exactly how it works and what it does.(Pin pointing arc?) adjustment on machine is 0-100 only, And I'm using it at about 70-80 seams to work best.
                    Last edited by H80N; 02-18-2015, 10:00 PM.
                    .

                    *******************************************
                    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                    My Blue Stuff:
                    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                    Dynasty 200DX
                    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                    Millermatic 200

                    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I haven't heard it much being explained. I don't know your machine. It took me a while to find the answers. HF is an overrunning high frequency high voltage with low amperage. It does little to transfer heat. Its purpose is to ionize shielding gas creating an interstate highway for the low voltage, in some machines fixed at 60 cycles, high current arc that heats the metal workpiece so it in turn can melt filler. Cleaning points and altering gap will change the frequency of the HF, it won't change the frequency of the welding arc.
                      Dynasty 280DX
                      Bobcat 250
                      MM252
                      Spool gun
                      Twentieth Century 295
                      Twentieth Century 295 AC
                      Marquette spot welder
                      Smith torches

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by H80N View Post
                        Glad you are starting to get a few things sorted.. but you need to read your manuals and the TIG booklet

                        http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/gtawbook.pdf


                        IS DIG FORCE AC Balance control on the Shopmaster 300????

                        No it has nothing to do with AC Balance in TIG... it is for Stick welding

                        It really messes up beads above 50 and my current is set right around 180 with 3/16 pure tungston. seams to work good. but burning tungston into cup.
                        I have been told to keep this adjustment set to Zero while welding steel.
                        Turning current down to much from 180 messes up bead. turning down Dig force much messes up bead and turning it up doesn't help much either.

                        ON my HF251-1
                        I can only play with frequency adjustment from what I read here on web sight,


                        Sorry .. you cannot adjust the Frequency.. Just the HF intensity

                        I guess I wanna be around 180? currently using it in-between 50 to 100 playing with it trying to learn exactly how it works and what it does.(Pin pointing arc?) adjustment on machine is 0-100 only, And I'm using it at about 70-80 seams to work best.
                        Manuals
                        I read all factory manuals that were supplied with my machines 50 times now!
                        4-5 times before turning it on! and every other book and resource I could find.

                        Dig Force
                        Miller has a bunch of diffrent manuals for the Shopmaster 300 on line they go by serial number one of the ones I was reading online mentioned that the Dig force control was in fact AC balance control when using machine in AC Tig welding. the manual that was supplied with my machine doesn't say that though.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by duaneb55 View Post
                          Try 1/8" filler max and maybe even 3/32".

                          1/16" tungsten is too small for the amperage required to do 3/16" aluminum which is going to be between 180-200A. I would use 1/8" and nothing smaller than 3/32".

                          From your description of what your filler rod is doing my guess is your torch angle is too much toward the filler and not toward the base material. This results in overheating the filler causing it to fall off the end instead of melting into the puddle as it should when you attempt to dip. Because it's too big for the task at hand, as soon as it falls off it cools in a blob on the base material.


                          Smaller filler, larger tungsten, perhaps more amperage and change your torch angle to almost straight up.
                          I had a very short 3/32 tungsten tried it seamed to improve things I have to pick up more and more Argon.

                          I am buying gas from an private Airgas dealer supplier and when I get a fresh bottle its only coming with about 1500psi in them is this normal ?
                          Our bottles of Nitrogen and Oxygen at at work come with over 3000 psi

                          Welded Before
                          Yes Gas welding and my Mig Miller Matic 251 welding with it is cheating!
                          Any one can Mig weld with that machine very user friendly very friendly.

                          I had to take a quarter, half a semester of gas welding for my A&P ticket.
                          talked about Tig welding but we didn't do any.

                          I have been doing more gas welding lately just to get in habit of using two hands at same time I recenty picket up a Meco mini Torch as well. Nice Torch! super super light
                          Last edited by Doright; 04-01-2015, 04:18 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Doright View Post
                            Manuals
                            I read all factory manuals that were supplied with my machines 50 times now!
                            4-5 times before turning it on! and every other book and resource I could find.

                            Dig Force
                            Miller has a bunch of diffrent manuals for the Shopmaster 300 on line they go by serial number one of the ones I was reading online mentioned that the Dig force control was in fact AC balance control when using machine in AC Tig welding. the manual that was supplied with my machine doesn't say that though.
                            Where did you see this??????????????????

                            The Shopmaster HAS NO ABILITY TO ADJUST AC BALANCE...

                            NONE... ZERO...ZIP...NADA..!!!!

                            Do not read more into the manual than is actually printed...

                            PLS post your Shopmaster serial number so that we can refer you to the correct version of the manual...pertinent page...

                            Otherwise we are just standing in the middle of Groom Lake in Tonopah Howling at the Moon....

                            See section 3-1

                            http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o322a_mil.pdf


                            1 Arc Force (Dig) Control

                            For SMAW, control increases short-circuit
                            amperage which allows the operator to use
                            a very short arc length without sticking the
                            electrode.
                            Set control at 0 for GTAW. When set at 0
                            (zero), short circuit amperage at low arc
                            voltage is the same as normal welding
                            amperage.





                            Last edited by H80N; 04-01-2015, 06:28 AM.
                            .

                            *******************************************
                            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                            My Blue Stuff:
                            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                            Dynasty 200DX
                            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                            Millermatic 200

                            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I got some more argon and with a new hose to my torch and with Dig set at ZERO and using the Bigger tungsten was able to lay out some beads and even repaired my Broken lawn mower deck drive thing with it YAY!!!!!! my first repair done with my machine!

                              I was even able to cobble some beer cans together! with smaller tungsten and lower power settings NO their not pretty welds yet and yes I did blow through a few times but I am welding aluminum for first time!!!!

                              Teaching ones self with the help of all you guys and reading my books over and over and even calling a few people and all had the same thing to say:
                              "It should be welding fine"
                              "Sounds like your doing every thing right it should be welding"
                              "sounds like your not getting enough Argon"
                              Yes something was wrong with machine It had a hole in my Argon hose Not a Big one but enough to cause a lot of head ache for a beginner trying to teach himself.

                              I will get My units serial number and post it tonight.


                              THIS WHOLE STORY IS A CREDIT TO MILLER!
                              I bought a used machine and in the process of teaching myself how to use it I was able to find people experienced with the machine to help me with it enough to tell me It should be working FINE and when it wasn't, I was able to trouble shoot the thing enough to figure out my problem in my case I had an argon flow issue at the Torch but being a novice beginner welder I didn't know how much flow I should have! so when asked if there was flow I said yes I had flow little did I know or understand that I wasn't getting enough flow!!!!

                              Burning the Tungsten into the cup & Black burning was the biggest hint every one should have caught and a even a few said and asked if I had argon flow!!! and I did have some flow but it wasn't enough flow!
                              I went through my trouble shooting guide again and in my Miller book and it repeatedly said Argon flow too low, I went hunting and sure enough I had a leak. Put new hose on and Now I can weld!

                              LETS SEE ANY CHINA MADE MACHINE USER HAVE THE SAME STORY.
                              Yes an experienced welder would have caught it quick IN PERSON but I am in middle of no wear desert teaching myself trouble shooting a machine I know little about about a subject I know even less about all I could do is call others and post on this forum and read the book, Not a story a user of a China machine will be able tell.

                              Thanks Miller!
                              Thanks for making the best welders in the world, I bought a Miller when a friend of mine had a 30 year old welder that broke and Miller had a replacement part to him within 24 hours! get service and parts like that from any other manufacture I think not! Its because of that I didnt mind buying a Used miller machine I knew I would be able to get parts for any Miller I bought for years to come without issue.

                              This is why Miller the IS the best in the world!!!!
                              Last edited by Doright; 04-09-2015, 06:55 PM.

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