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  • Next model TIG inverter pulsing suggestion for Miller

    I'm only a noob, but I play with my Dynasty 200 DX's pulsing a lot. One thing that I reckon would be super useful is to display the average amps that a particular pulse configuration gives. I can calculate it myself, but it's too much for me to do in my head on the fly so I just wing it and often get it wrong. E.g. today I was doing some stuff with reasonably thick mild steel, maybe 0.120" or 0.140", and started at 40% peak, 40% background and 150A main amps. That wasn't enough so I kicked it up to 160A and then further to 170A but still not enough. In hindsight after running it through my calculator it was still too low.

    On the computer I have a programming environment called Python so it's a 2-liner to put in my algorithm:

    Code:
    >>> def pulse(peak, background, main):
        return peak / 100 * main + (1 - peak / 100) * background / 100 * main
    >>> pulse(40, 40, 150)
    96.0
    >>> pulse(40, 40, 160)
    102.4
    >>> pulse(40, 40, 170)
    108.8

    but as you can see I was too low and should have bumped up some of the parameters. Rather than having to come inside and fire up the computer, it would be great to have some way of displaying the average amperage output on the machine once you set in the pulse parameters. Unless it's already there and I just don't know about it?

    E.g. today it would have saved me making a mistake when I thought I was in the right ballpark initially. I then had to fix it. No big deal but I ended up putting in too much heat by running over my mistake a second time to ensure penetration.

    I tend to use two modes, 1 PPS for butts and 150 PPS for fillets, same pulse parameters just changing the frequency.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Legion View Post
    I'm only a noob, but I play with my Dynasty 200 DX's pulsing a lot. One thing that I reckon would be super useful is to display the average amps that a particular pulse configuration gives. I can calculate it myself, but it's too much for me to do in my head on the fly so I just wing it and often get it wrong. E.g. today I was doing some stuff with reasonably thick mild steel, maybe 0.120" or 0.140", and started at 40% peak, 40% background and 150A main amps. That wasn't enough so I kicked it up to 160A and then further to 170A but still not enough. In hindsight after running it through my calculator it was still too low.

    On the computer I have a programming environment called Python so it's a 2-liner to put in my algorithm:

    Code:
    >>> def pulse(peak, background, main):
        return peak / 100 * main + (1 - peak / 100) * background / 100 * main
    >>> pulse(40, 40, 150)
    96.0
    >>> pulse(40, 40, 160)
    102.4
    >>> pulse(40, 40, 170)
    108.8

    but as you can see I was too low and should have bumped up some of the parameters. Rather than having to come inside and fire up the computer, it would be great to have some way of displaying the average amperage output on the machine once you set in the pulse parameters. Unless it's already there and I just don't know about it?

    E.g. today it would have saved me making a mistake when I thought I was in the right ballpark initially. I then had to fix it. No big deal but I ended up putting in too much heat by running over my mistake a second time to ensure penetration.

    I tend to use two modes, 1 PPS for butts and 150 PPS for fillets, same pulse parameters just changing the frequency.

    To each his own but you are sure making this complicated.

    Oh and .120" or .140" anything need not be in the same sentence as "thick".

    Griff

    Comment


    • #3
      Checking the amps

      After setting the pulse controls, if I want to know the amps I rest the cup on my bench with the tungsten close to the table, use my left hand (my right hand is holding the torch) to block the arc, step on the pedal and look at the amp reading on the machine...adjust if necessary

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by griff01 View Post
        To each his own but you are sure making this complicated.
        It took me about 30 seconds to put in the algorithm.

        I can keep a diary of what settings work but as a hobbiest I don't have production lines so each job is going to be fairly unique. Working out the effects of pulse parameters would simplify my life because then I could say something like "what if I change peak time from 40% to 60%, how much will that increase my average amps" without doing little test runs first or going inside to check on the computer. Here are some examples:

        Code:
        >>> pulse(40, 40, 150)
        96.0
        >>> pulse(60, 40, 150)
        114.0
        >>> pulse(40, 40, 100)
        64.0
        >>> pulse(60, 40, 100)
        76.0
        >>> pulse(40, 60, 150)
        114.0
        >>> pulse(60, 60, 150)
        126.0
        >>> pulse(40, 60, 100)
        76.0
        >>> pulse(60, 60, 100)
        84.0
        So I can quickly see the different effects of different parameters on my average heat input. I can always do test runs but this would give me an idea in advance "oh, ok, I'm putting in an extra 15A, be prepared to move a bit faster".

        Originally posted by griff01 View Post
        Oh and .120" or .140" anything need not be in the same sentence as "thick".
        Yeah, that's a good point. Thick compared to the .060" I mostly find myself welding, I guess.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by griff01 View Post
          To each his own but you are sure making this complicated.

          Oh and .120" or .140" anything need not be in the same sentence as "thick".

          Griff

          People like Legion are the reason we no longer live in caves.

          Question EVERYTHING!
          =======================
          Miller 211 AutoSet
          Miller Dynasty 200 DX
          Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 42

          "The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters"
          Francisco Goya

          Comment


          • #6
            Incorrect

            Originally posted by Legion View Post
            ... started at 40% peak, 40% background and 150A main amps. That wasn't enough so I kicked it up to 160A and then further to 170A but still not enough. In hindsight after running it through my calculator it was still too low.

            On the computer I have a programming environment called Python so it's a 2-liner to put in my algorithm:

            Code:
            >>> def pulse(peak, background, main):
                return peak / 100 * main + (1 - peak / 100) * background / 100 * main
            >>> pulse(40, 40, 150)
            96.0
            >>> pulse(40, 40, 160)
            102.4
            >>> pulse(40, 40, 170)
            108.8
            Originally posted by Legion View Post
            ... started at 40% peak, 40% background and 150A main amps.
            You probably meant "started at 40% peak, 40A background and 150A main or peak."

            If you spend 40% of the time on Peak Amps, then you spend 60% of the time on Background Amps. The weighted average is then:

            Avg = .4*PeakAmps + .6*BkgrndAmps
            Your first example then becomes:
            Avg = .4*150 A + .6*40 A = 84 A

            Your code should look like this:

            >>> def pulse(peak, background, main):
            return peak / 100 * main + (1 - peak / 100) * background

            It's good to do a simple sanity check on code. In this case, calculating a simple, unweighted, average in your head would've indicated an error.

            (40+150)/2 = 95.

            Comment


            • #7
              According to my Dynasty 200DX user manual background amps is set as a percentage of main amps, not as a raw amps value.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think average amps only tells a very small part of the story when using pulse. You can have two different sets of settings with the same average amps but wildly different arc and puddle behavior.
                Mike Zanconato
                Zanconato Custom Cycles
                @mzank on Instagram
                Dynasty 280DX
                Meco Midget

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh, definitely. Particularly at 1PPS, which I find I use for filling gaps, usually where square tube butts onto a radius corner of another tube. In that situation I'm more interested in the individual parameters. But at higher frequencies I think the average would be useful. I like the high frequencies for focusing in fillets.

                  It's probably unnecessary. I'm just a noob tinkering. I should just concentrate on basics and get my skills rock solid. I've seen your welds, zank, and read some of your early threads on weldingweb. If I could weld half that well I'd be happy and from memory you don't use pulse at all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Speaking of pulse, I found a great article by some Miller Welding Engineers on the Fabricator.com website.

                    http://www.thefabricator.com/article...tainless-steel


                    With the exception of the whole "reducing heat by 60%" bit, it is a very informative article with pictures and most importantly--numbers & data.
                    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                    Eastwood MIG175 w/spoolgun
                    Eastwood Versacut40 Plasma cutter

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Multiple Waveforms... Too....

                      In addition to pulse... the Dynasty ALREADY has the availability to choose from multiple waveforms like for AC aluminum welding which sure extends it's versatility

                      most other inverters on the market DO NOT have this waveform capability


                      Advance Squarewave provides a fast freezing puddle, deep penetration, and fast travel speeds.

                      Soft Squarewave is used for a soft buttery arc with maximum puddle control and good wetting action.

                      Sine wave is for customers that like a traditional arc. It is quiet with good wetting.

                      Triangular wave reduces the heat input and is good on thin aluminum. It provides fast travel speeds.



                      BTW.. these can also be really useful for bronze castings...
                      Last edited by H80N; 07-05-2014, 02:58 PM.
                      .

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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Legion View Post
                        Oh, definitely. Particularly at 1PPS, which I find I use for filling gaps, usually where square tube butts onto a radius corner of another tube. In that situation I'm more interested in the individual parameters. But at higher frequencies I think the average would be useful. I like the high frequencies for focusing in fillets.

                        It's probably unnecessary. I'm just a noob tinkering. I should just concentrate on basics and get my skills rock solid. I've seen your welds, zank, and read some of your early threads on weldingweb. If I could weld half that well I'd be happy and from memory you don't use pulse at all.
                        Yeah, unfortunately, my current machine does not have pulse. But I've been using a friend's Dynasty and I love using pulse on that. I haven't done too much with the low speed pulse, but the high speed pulse is really nice. I love how the puddle wets in and how smooth the bead is. I'm saving my coins for a new machine.

                        I hope I didn't sound harsh in my other post. I hadn't meant it to be.
                        Mike Zanconato
                        Zanconato Custom Cycles
                        @mzank on Instagram
                        Dynasty 280DX
                        Meco Midget

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not at all.

                          Since you're in this thread, I reckon Miller should throw you a bone in the form of a Dynasty sponsorship or whatever.

                          Miller reps, check out zank's work and his story.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the suggestion

                            Thanks for the suggestion. We do appreciate your involvement in the Discussion Forums, but unfortunately, our sponsorship budgets are tapped out for the year. If you have any questions, please let us know.

                            Thanks,
                            Miller Welding Forum Administrators

                            Comment

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