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Miller Vs Hobart

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  • Miller Vs Hobart

    In another post I complained about my Miller 180 Autoset using .023 wire welding inconsistently. Just for fun I changed my DVI-2 over to .023 and it worked flawlessly, so I must come to the conclusion that it is the machine.
    So now I am looking at the Hobart 190 handler with spool gun and have a couple of questions.

    1. Will the 190 accept Miller/Bernard Mig guns or are the electrical and physical connection proprietary.
    2. I read on the forum that the 140 can only use a 10' gun, does that apply to the 190 as well?
    3. Is there any (miller type autoset feature) on the 190. The main reason I am trying to get away from the Miller. I like to weld a little wetter than the machine will allow, apparently from the "wire speed tracking system" on board the Miller. I want to set the machine where I want it, not what the machine wants to do.

    What I am trying to do specifically is low heat welding on ornamental projects where the appearance of the weld is more important than the structural integrity. More importantly I need to weld with low heat to reduce the amount of warpage and to spend less time using heat to take the warpage out. I know the amount of warpage can be controlled by proper welding technique and placement of welds but it is just not practical for me to flip a project over and over, much faster to heat straighten when done.

    For the complete story > http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...istent-welding
    Last edited by metalpuddler; 05-11-2014, 10:44 AM.
    TB 302
    Sync 250 DX
    MM 180 Auto
    Lincoln tombstone
    DVI-2
    Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

  • #2
    Miller Vs Hobart

    If I'm not wrong Miller owns Hobart so essentially they have the same machines....I might be wrong

    Comment


    • #3
      Wire speed tracking can be turned off.

      Autoset can be turned off and the chart inside the door used.

      Got rid of my 211 because Miller told me the drive isn't rated for more than 10 foot gun, and that using a longer gun would void the warranty.

      All the Hobarts I've looked at have click stops on settings, the Millers have infinite adjustments. No Hobart for me, and I doubt you'd like it either.

      Even though the smaller Millers have "make believe" numbers (no real voltage or IPM) you can still "dial in" the settings that work for you - make a chart of your own when you find what works for you.

      If none of this appeals to you, save up for a 252 - you'll still need to make your own chart if you want perfection.

      The 252 will handle a 15 foot torch, and the 30A spoolgun has 30 foot leads instead of the 12 foot on the spoolmate 100. I don't do aluminum, but I keep a 2 lb. spool of .035 hard wire in the 30A just for the extra 15 feet of reach (do some fairly large projects)

      I originally bought the 211 with spoolgun, used it for about a year and mostly used the chart settings instead of Autoset - for me, the chart and autoset were both a bit hot.

      My reasons for the 211 were the MVP and "portability" - never used it on 120 volts, and at my age, 85 pounds plus 10 pounds of wire plus a gas cylinder is NOT portable :=( -
      I found a really good deal on a nearly new 252 with 2 bottles, dual running gear and a NEVER USED 30A gun. Never been sorry. (I do kinda wish I'd held onto the 211, but my buddy's happy he got a wire machine at a good price)

      Free advice, ya get whatcha pay for ... Steve

      Comment


      • #4
        How does one turn wire speed tracking off? This may be my only problem.
        TB 302
        Sync 250 DX
        MM 180 Auto
        Lincoln tombstone
        DVI-2
        Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

        Comment


        • #5
          I do not own a welder with auto set, or have even used one. But, I believe auto set can be turned off, and you have infinite control. Most low amp MIG welders are tapped machines, where voltage is set, and you adjust wire speed to tailor your needs.

          -Ian
          :~ATTITUDE MAKES THE DIFFERENCE!!!:

          Comment


          • #6
            I was going by the 3rd "feature" here

            http://store.cyberweld.com/millermat...pdItemDataTabs

            which states that the unit is shipped with the wire speed tracking turned off - when you asked how, I dnl one of the manuals here

            http://www.millerwelds.com/service/l...&submit=Search

            But when I searched the pdf for the word "track", only one instance showed up which explains exactly NOTHING.

            It kinda sounds to me like wire speed tracking and autoset are the same thing? Dunno what's going on there. Just checked the 211 manual, there's no mention of the word "track" anywhere in it.

            Have you tried turning autoset off and just following the chart inside the cover? For lighter stuff with my 211, I had pretty good luck setting things almost as low as the next thinnest metal from what I was welding.

            Also, with thinner stuff it sometimes helps to "trigger weld", also known as manual pulse welding. Keeps the HAZ down without losing penetration... Steve

            Comment


            • #7
              I do appearance grade welds on all thicknesses (22g-1/2") my 180 can handle. Never had a problem. I don't use the auto set as it's a gimmick for novice welders. I use .023 and .030, never .035. The .023 is a little tougher to get set up just right but runs nice once it's set up.

              What exact problems are you having with the .023?

              Comment


              • #8
                Had an extended conversation with D.... at Miller customer service today, gave them my settings, type of material and type of wire so they can try to reproduce the problem I am having on one of there machines in the shop. They seem genuinely interested in solving my issue.

                While welding verticals on a gate or fence panel (hundreds of repetitive half inch welds) it may weld fine then out of the blue start banging the wire into the work like the wire speed has been drastically increased or burn the wire up the tip, there is no consistency to what it will do the next time you pull the trigger.
                TB 302
                Sync 250 DX
                MM 180 Auto
                Lincoln tombstone
                DVI-2
                Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
                  I do appearance grade welds on all thicknesses (22g-1/2") my 180 can handle. Never had a problem. I don't use the auto set as it's a gimmick for novice welders. I use .023 and .030, never .035. The .023 is a little tougher to get set up just right but runs nice once it's set up.

                  What exact problems are you having with the .023?
                  welding 1/2" with a 180? it's good your not looking for structural integrity unless you hang it on a wall in an earthquake zone with the couch under it.
                  miller 225 bobcat
                  miller aead200le (with miller hf tig trailer mounted)
                  mm175, mm211, TA181i
                  mm252 w/30a spool gun
                  precision tig 225
                  hobart stickmate LX ac/dc
                  Speedglas 9100X & XX / Miller Digital Elite
                  hypertherm 380 & cutmaster 52
                  victor journeyman & super range
                  ridgid chop saw, kalamazoo band saw
                  steel max and evolution carbide saws
                  6 4.5" & a 20lb 9" rockwell grinders
                  case 580 backhoe (for what i can"t lift)
                  if first you don't succeed
                  trash the b#####d

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kerr74 View Post
                    If I'm not wrong Miller owns Hobart so essentially they have the same machines....I might be wrong
                    You're wrong.
                    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jbmprods View Post
                      Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
                      I do appearance grade welds on all thicknesses (22g-1/2") my 180 can handle. Never had a problem. I don't use the auto set as it's a gimmick for novice welders. I use .023 and .030, never .035. The .023 is a little tougher to get set up just right but runs nice once it's set up.

                      What exact problems are you having with the .023?
                      welding 1/2" with a 180? it's good your not looking for structural integrity unless you hang it on a wall in an earthquake zone with the couch under it.
                      Whys that? I do it very rarely, with proper joint prep, on butt welds. takes me about 5 passes which is time consuming but I have never had an inspector ever bock at one of my welds. I'm by no means claiming this is an ideal machine for that thickness but when I've been in a pinch it's worked fine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
                        You're wrong.
                        Why is that??

                        ITW owns Miller and Hobart....

                        There mvp plugs interchange, gun parts interchange, mainly the only thing different is the color.

                        Please chime in....

                        ~John
                        Life is to short for cheap tools.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          John, I agree that Hobart and Miller machines share a few things as you said - but one thing they do NOT share is fine tuning - the Hobart 210, like most of their machines, has "click stops", 7 of them, to adjust the voltage while the MM211 uses an infinitely variable control for both volts and amps.

                          In fact, every miller from the 140 on up has infinite voltage control while every Hobart clear up to the Ironman 230 has "click stops" - you just get a few MORE clicks with the larger machines, but I know on some of the stuff I do, I can tell a difference in the way it runs with just a couple TENTHS change in voltage.

                          Haven't looked inside a Hobart to compare actual parts, mainly because the limitation of 7 choices from minimum to maximum voltage made my choice for me. Bought a 211 about a year and a half ago, sold it to a friend last year and moved up to a mm252 with dual running gear and a 30A spool gun.

                          Liked the 211, but wanted more of everything - longer torch, longer spool gun, more power, auto-switch between guns, etc.

                          So yeah, Miller and Hobart are the same, except where they're DIFFERENT... if you don't wanna spend a bit extra and don't think you'll notice the lack of fine adjustment, that's your choice- I made mine...Steve

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AKweldshop View Post
                            Why is that??

                            ITW owns Miller and Hobart....

                            There mvp plugs interchange, gun parts interchange, mainly the only thing different is the color.

                            Please chime in....

                            ~John
                            The first statement was "Miller owns Hobart". That's wrong. ITW owns both Hobart and Miller, and since Hobart also had a filler metals division, the government made ITW divest itself of anything Hobart over 250 amps. But MILLER DOES NOT OWN HOBART!!!!!!

                            There are only a couple machines identical between Hobart and Miller.

                            Hobart has its own engineering department, as does Miller. Hobart welders in each class, offered in common with Miller, weld considerably different (and in most cases, better).

                            Yes, they do share some parts. They do NOT have common wiring diagrams.

                            I'm in the business, my only income from the last 25 years or so has been thru my welding business. I have multiple engine drive welders running from 250 amps up to 600 amps. I had a need for a dedicated MIG machine, I chose the HH210MVP, have not regretted it since. In only two years, it has more than paid for itself, welding everything from 20 ga. up to 3/8". I just set it according to the door chart, run a test weld, make adjustments, and weld away. Almost seamless, idiot-proof. You can't set it wrong.

                            I don't even care about the plastic drive roll assembly. Probably saved me a few bucks buying it, and if you saw it, you'd probably realize it is better than the aluminum one they replaced it with, for political reasons only. The rollers themselves are steel.
                            Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Auto Set 180

                              My good friend has a 180 and welds with .023 all the time. you have something
                              wrong someplace.
                              B.J.

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