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Miller Vs Hobart

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  • #16
    I think I have found my problem, a combination of my welding technique and this machine. It appears that I am trying to compensate for the initial wire speed (hot start) when I first pull the trigger by increasing the wire speed or reduce voltage for stitch welding. In a perfect world all joints would be uniformly prepped with the same gap start to finish. Unfortunately for me, especially out in the field, some joints may start closed and gap increases down the weld joint (keep in mind I am mostly working with thin gauge material) therefor the stitch weld becomes necessary. I have not had this issue with any other welder...ever. My DVI performs perfectly in this situation as does my old Lincoln 125.
    All that being said if I prep a piece of 3/16 plate the 180 works perfect with the hot start from start to finish. I don't think there is any way to disable this feature. So I will stick with my initial conclusion that I need a different machine that will function with the settings I want to use and not a machine that will "help" me weld. Unfortunately it seems all of the small portable machines incorporate this feature.
    TB 302
    Sync 250 DX
    MM 180 Auto
    Lincoln tombstone
    DVI-2
    Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

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    • #17
      My 180 does not have "hot start", I suspect none do. Sounds like you need to practice your mig skills.

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      • #18
        The MM 180 doesn't have hot start. The 180 has a fixed level of "run-in". Miller is calling this "smooth-start". The MM 140 and MM 211 have this smooth-start feature too.

        Hobart's Handler 190 and Handler 210 MVP don't have this run-in feature. The arc starts on the Handler units are very responsive and smooth with out it. To date I've never experienced a poppy arc start from a Handler 187, 190, or 210.

        Lincoln's PowerMIG 180 doesn't have this run-in either. The PM 180 arc starts are as good as the Hobart Handlers.

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        • #19
          I have never noticed any undesirable conditions under arc starting with my 180 or my friends 211. What's supposed to be the problem?

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          • #20
            Thanks for chiming in Danny, that was the term D.... at Miller tech support used and I couldn't remember what he called it so I used the term "hot start", my bad. I assume the smaller the wire the more pronounced the "run in" will be. Hence why it isn't so bad with .035 wire. I don't have any problems stitch welding with my DVI or my Lincoln 125, so I don't believe my mig welding skills need to be practiced since I have been pulling a trigger for almost fourty years now and have never experienced this issue. So now I am going to look for a machine with no wire run in.
            TB 302
            Sync 250 DX
            MM 180 Auto
            Lincoln tombstone
            DVI-2
            Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

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            • #21
              The machine doesn't know what size wire is loaded into it, so that wont make the smooth start feature change any preset preferences. Likely your settings are just not as dialed with .023 as they are with the heavier wires (which I assume you have ran more of based on your posts). The only way the machine "knows" .023 is in it is if you are running auto set. Sorry for questioning your mig experience, just based on what your symptoms were was leading me to think the operator may be the culprit. I am now wondering if your wfs is just out of the "operating window" low? Have you tried really stepping up the wire speed? Meaning, screw the door chart, try something comical and see how it runs? Just throwing out ideas.

              Also, your saying you are going to look into a machine with no run in, I don't think this is your problem as many have posted here with great results with the small millermatics that have smooth start. It leads me to think settings, consumables, faulty machinery, or something of this nature. I think you would be throwing the 180 out with out properly diagnosing the issue. Good luck with solving the issues.
              Last edited by Cgotto6; 05-19-2014, 03:48 PM.

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              • #22
                Cgotto said "The machine doesn't know what size wire is loaded into it", that's exactly the point I am trying to make. Regardless of wire size the machine is going to push the same measurement of wire out when you initially pull the trigger, so it seems to me if your running .035 you get more filler material that if running .023 and vice versa. Does that make sense? Anyway I have posted a video to you tube that may explain my issues better that I can put in writing. Again I have this issue only with the MM180 autoset and not with my DVI or Lincoln 125. With those two machines I can jump from weld to weld nonstop and no need for fine adjustment. I know some will think this is petty but this is what I do for a living, time is money, and I don't have time to adjust my machine back and forth all day. In conclusion, the mm180 autoset is a fine machine, it welds just fine in many applications but just not this one particular application that I do most frequently.

                http://youtu.be/o8A0oDtFBL8
                TB 302
                Sync 250 DX
                MM 180 Auto
                Lincoln tombstone
                DVI-2
                Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

                Comment


                • #23
                  I always assumed the run in was based on an equation that uses the set wfs as a factor. So with .023 you nullify the variance of wire diameter by running a higher wfs to maintain correct metal deposition rate. Is this not true? If it's not, seems like a really stupid feature to not compensate for various wire diameters.

                  I totally understand the frustration and desire to have a happy medium set up for all the welds you are producing to increase production.
                  Last edited by Cgotto6; 05-20-2014, 03:05 PM.

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                  • #24
                    The "smooth start" feature definitely has its advantages, just not for me in the shop making short stitch welds. I am however going to keep the 180 as my main "in the field" welder. I should get my new Hobart machine by Friday and if it works the way I hope it does (no smooth start) I am going to mount on a swing arm over my welding table (I've always wanted one like that) during the memorial weekend.
                    TB 302
                    Sync 250 DX
                    MM 180 Auto
                    Lincoln tombstone
                    DVI-2
                    Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by metalpuddler View Post
                      The "smooth start" feature definitely has its advantages, just not for me in the shop making short stitch welds. I am however going to keep the 180 as my main "in the field" welder. I should get my new Hobart machine by Friday and if it works the way I hope it does (no smooth start) I am going to mount on a swing arm over my welding table (I've always wanted one like that) during the memorial weekend.
                      Darn, I was going to reply yesterday evening that the PowerMIG 180C may be the better option for you over the Hobart. Don't get me wrong, the Handler 190 and 210 MVP ( I currently own a 210 MVP) are both very good units. They most definitely don't have the run-in issue that you are experiencing with your MM 180. Anyway, I was thinking the PM 180C might be a better option because of it's wire drive. I haven't tried it on my 180C, but I suspect the drive wouldn't have an issue with a 12' gun lead. On the Handler units, Hobart isn't going to recommend using any longer than a 10' gun lead. The power pin end on the Hobart is different than a Miller. It's difficult to find a gun lead longer than 10' that fits the Hobart unit. You might be able to get a longer gun lead for a Handler through HTP America.

                      You have the DVI 2 so I'm guessing the fact that the Handler is a tapped voltage unit, and PM 180c is a variable voltage unit is not a major concern.

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