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Trailblazer and Bobcat 250 What's the difference?

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  • Trailblazer and Bobcat 250 What's the difference?

    Today at the mill it was much like a bee hive. Maybe thirty people involved in replacing the grinding/drying system. Howard the fabricator had his new Trailblazer 400' away at the shop. Too much traffic jam to move it so we shared my Bobcat 250. He talks of features on the Trailblazer that'll spoil you. Ive never used his Trailblazer. He says it's hard to stick 7018, I could live with that. Lets say his 7018 vertical and overhead welds look better than mine, but about the same with either machine.
    What's the difference in features, I know about the 14 pin connector, and digital read out, but what sets them apart really. I'm sort of a ***** for great tools, especially welders.
    Dynasty 280DX
    Bobcat 250
    MM252
    Spool gun
    Twentieth Century 295
    Twentieth Century 295 AC
    Marquette spot welder
    Smith torches

  • #2
    I believe one of the features of the Trail Blazer over the BC, is the AC generator is seperate from the welding generator on a common shaft. This way, whatever AC current is being used off of it during welding(like someone using a grinder while another is welding) does not affect the weld output, since they are coming from different sources inside the machine. If you were to be just straight stick welding only from either machine, I don't see where there would be much if any difference between the two. But I have never used a TB so I can't say for sure on that.
    Try welding a few beads with his machine and then a few with yours to see if you can detect any discernable differences with the weld output.

    Comment


    • #3
      Things are too crazy this week, 9 day shut down to replace equipment. This is a single stream mill. Each ounce of pine pellets passes through each machine. I'm in awe at how many machines are required to grind up a tree, dry it out, and squirt this hot gooey mess through thousands of little holes, break them off, cool them, remove dust, and bag, palatalize, then stockpile. The system always has a bottleneck limiting production. Maybe it won't be as busy next week.
      Dynasty 280DX
      Bobcat 250
      MM252
      Spool gun
      Twentieth Century 295
      Twentieth Century 295 AC
      Marquette spot welder
      Smith torches

      Comment


      • #4
        Whatever happened to cut. split and stack your firewood then let it season ?

        Comment


        • #5
          I tell them it is possible to burn wood with less processing. They don't see the humor. It does make it possible for those convenience seeking environmentalist types to feel they are being "green". I don't think they factor how much energy is used to process.
          Dynasty 280DX
          Bobcat 250
          MM252
          Spool gun
          Twentieth Century 295
          Twentieth Century 295 AC
          Marquette spot welder
          Smith torches

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Willie B View Post
            I tell them it is possible to burn wood with less processing. They don't see the humor. It does make it possible for those convenience seeking environmentalist types to feel they are being "green". I don't think they factor how much energy is used to process.
            Exactly. They think these pellet sacks are just harvested from under the wood pellet trees for their use. Kind of like gathering pecans, except for a "wood" burning stove.

            Comment


            • #7
              New info today, No AC welding on a trailblazer.
              Dynasty 280DX
              Bobcat 250
              MM252
              Spool gun
              Twentieth Century 295
              Twentieth Century 295 AC
              Marquette spot welder
              Smith torches

              Comment


              • #8
                No AC weld output on the new TB. Older versions had it and it's a shame Miller did away with it on the latest model almost eliminating aluminum TIG and preventing using AC stick to combat severe cases of arc blow. The thing is, the machine produces AC which is then rectified to DC so it's already there as it was when the TB had it. Not sure why Miller left it out of the latest version.

                Weld output is also 3 phase as apposed to the Bobcat's single phase which makes for a smoother although not exactly like a pure DC (i.e. SA200) output arc.
                MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
                Syncrowave 180 SD
                Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
                *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
                *HF-251D-1
                *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
                PakMaster 100XL
                Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110
                http://www.millerwelds.com/images/sm...rolleyes.png?2

                Comment


                • #9
                  Duane,

                  As a kid, then into my teens, my father's friend had a Westinghouse DC monster with Chrysler 236 Industrial flat head. As I got a bit older, and so did he, I tried to buy it a few times. He moved away, leaving it behind his old barn. One day he called to say he didn't have long to live. If I still wanted it, I was welcome to it. In the early days I had nothing to compare it to. Later I realized how sweet a welder it really was. By the time I got it it was stuck, I removed the crank and beat the pistons out with a block of wood, honed it, new rings, bearings, and gaskets. It roared to life. It worked out to high frequency DC though it's gone and I don't remember how high.I've seen the multi hump sine wave of three phase DC, How does the frequent hump sine wave of a single phase DC generator compare?
                  Dynasty 280DX
                  Bobcat 250
                  MM252
                  Spool gun
                  Twentieth Century 295
                  Twentieth Century 295 AC
                  Marquette spot welder
                  Smith torches

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bistineau View Post
                    Exactly. They think these pellet sacks are just harvested from under the wood pellet trees for their use. Kind of like gathering pecans, except for a "wood" burning stove.
                    I thought they grew underground like peanuts?
                    Dynasty 280DX
                    Bobcat 250
                    MM252
                    Spool gun
                    Twentieth Century 295
                    Twentieth Century 295 AC
                    Marquette spot welder
                    Smith torches

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by duaneb55 View Post
                      No AC weld output on the new TB. Older versions had it and it's a shame Miller did away with it on the latest model almost eliminating aluminum TIG and preventing using AC stick to combat severe cases of arc blow. The thing is, the machine produces AC which is then rectified to DC so it's already there as it was when the TB had it. Not sure why Miller left it out of the latest version.

                      Weld output is also 3 phase as apposed to the Bobcat's single phase which makes for a smoother although not exactly like a pure DC (i.e. SA200) output arc.
                      How would the pure DC (SA-200) machines give flat line DC? I'm assuming a three phase AC then rectified supply would be similar to a three phase factory machine rectified for DC. Current never falls to zero, as two more phases not in sync. would also be contributing.
                      Dynasty 280DX
                      Bobcat 250
                      MM252
                      Spool gun
                      Twentieth Century 295
                      Twentieth Century 295 AC
                      Marquette spot welder
                      Smith torches

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The SA200, and other Classics don't have rectifiers, they are pure Generator output, as for the new Miller machines like the 325/350/400, they have a rectifier, however that output also has a high speed switch (IGBT), or IGBT'sl integrated to implement a designer wave form.

                        Few really used the AC output of the 302, as it was unstable at best. Want to weld Aluminum. use a spoolgun

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          From memory, the Westinghouse had a lot of segments on the commutator. How many field poles I'm not sure. How many brushes I don't remember. I would think as a brush is reached by an armature coil. a surge of Dc would rise from zero, then fall to zero, and repeat. Wouldn't that give a rapidly pulsating DC?
                          Dynasty 280DX
                          Bobcat 250
                          MM252
                          Spool gun
                          Twentieth Century 295
                          Twentieth Century 295 AC
                          Marquette spot welder
                          Smith torches

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            The Miller engine-driven welder/generator lineup has many multiprocess welding options that can help you be prepared for most anything, all with AC generator power. While the Trailblazer no longer has AC welding output, it still has AC generator power. When choosing a machine for jobs that require AC welding, Miller recommends either a Dynasty inverter plugged into your welder/generator, or consider a Bobcat or Big Blue Air Pak Deluxe.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Willie B View Post
                              How would the pure DC (SA-200) machines give flat line DC? I'm assuming a three phase AC then rectified supply would be similar to a three phase factory machine rectified for DC. Current never falls to zero, as two more phases not in sync. would also be contributing.
                              In a pure DC output generator, there is actually AC current taking place within the windings of the armature. Remember all those commutator segments on the Westinghouse? The pure DC output then is a result of the positioning of the field coils, the (+)/(-) brushes, individual windings in the armature and the relationship between the three.

                              The AC current is induced in the multiple, individual armature windings as they approach, pass thru and move away from the (+) and opposite (-) poles of the magnet fields created by the fixed field coils. Because the fixed output brushes are wide enough to span two or more armature segments at a time, the slight rising and falling of the (+) or (-) voltage within each individual winding thus becomes a smooth uninterrupted output at the brush leads. This process has been referred to as "natural rectification" and requires neither an output rectifier or field voltage filtering capacitors to produce a straight line pure DC output.
                              Last edited by duaneb55; 05-14-2014, 11:36 AM.
                              MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
                              Syncrowave 180 SD
                              Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
                              *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
                              *HF-251D-1
                              *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
                              PakMaster 100XL
                              Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110
                              http://www.millerwelds.com/images/sm...rolleyes.png?2

                              Comment

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