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Wimpy torch on Dynasty 280 DX

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  • Wimpy torch on Dynasty 280 DX

    My new Dynasty 280 DX if I'm not mistaken is rated at 280 amp peak on AC or DC. The torch Miller supplies with their kit, and recommends if component, is the Weldcraft W280 Super Cool. I'm one of those nuts who reads manuals. It says 280 amps DC, 195 amps AC. I,m disappointed. Thicker aluminum will require all the heat I can muster. I'll be limited with a handicap of 85 amps.
    Do I now have to buy a heavier kit for heavy aluminum? What melts on these torches when I exceed rated amperage?
    I feel like I did years ago when i bought my first heavy duty truck. I wanted snow tires. The dealer (a small rural dealer) agreed to swap for snows for a fee. The tires he supplied were load range C, mine were load range E. His response was "You won't be carrying much weight, no problem." I went off the deep end! You mean I paid thousands extra for a heavy duty truck, hundreds extra for tires, and you want to limit me to half ton loads?
    What are other owners doing about this?
    Dynasty 280DX
    Bobcat 250
    MM252
    Spool gun
    Twentieth Century 295
    Twentieth Century 295 AC
    Marquette spot welder
    Smith torches

  • #2
    Willie, That is why I didn't buy the package back when I bought my 300, I didn't want to settle on what the package supplies.

    I have a Speedway Torch SW320 and its the most flexible one Ive ever used verses what I used to have on a 250 synchrowave.

    There's nothing worse than having to fight with a stiff torch ( Not that yours is )

    But don't settle for a junk torch.

    Comment


    • #3
      You will only have issues if you plan to run at high amperage for an extended weld time. I doubt you will ever notice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Willie B View Post
        My new Dynasty 280 DX if I'm not mistaken is rated at 280 amp peak on AC or DC. The torch Miller supplies with their kit, and recommends if component, is the Weldcraft W280 Super Cool. I'm one of those nuts who reads manuals. It says 280 amps DC, 195 amps AC. I,m disappointed. Thicker aluminum will require all the heat I can muster. I'll be limited with a handicap of 85 amps.
        Do I now have to buy a heavier kit for heavy aluminum? What melts on these torches when I exceed rated amperage?
        I feel like I did years ago when i bought my first heavy duty truck. I wanted snow tires. The dealer (a small rural dealer) agreed to swap for snows for a fee. The tires he supplied were load range C, mine were load range E. His response was "You won't be carrying much weight, no problem." I went off the deep end! You mean I paid thousands extra for a heavy duty truck, hundreds extra for tires, and you want to limit me to half ton loads?
        What are other owners doing about this?
        Willie

        those ratings of 280 amps DC, 195 amps AC are at %100 duty cycle..

        so I do not believe you have anything to worry about...
        the torch has a higher duty cycle than the welder (see page 16 )

        http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o253086e_mil.pdf

        here is the torch data sheet..

        http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AY30-0.pdf
        Last edited by H80N; 03-31-2014, 09:16 AM.
        .

        *******************************************
        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

        My Blue Stuff:
        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200DX
        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
        Millermatic 200

        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

        Comment


        • #5
          I guess I'll cross the bridge when I come to it. I am curious how AC generates more heat than DC. Why the dual rating? As those of us welding only DC would likely opt for a Maxstar, and those of us wanting less than 200 amps AC would likely opt for a Dynasty 200, why recommend a 195 amp torch? I understood this torch had been developed expressly for the 280 because 250s weren't adequate. Have they underrated the torch to avoid warranty claims? I read the 280/195 amp ratings are contingent on pairing it with a Coolmate 4. It is Miller who paired it with a Coolmate 1.3! Miller is not the company I would have expected to behave in this way!
          Dynasty 280DX
          Bobcat 250
          MM252
          Spool gun
          Twentieth Century 295
          Twentieth Century 295 AC
          Marquette spot welder
          Smith torches

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by H80N View Post
            Willie

            those ratings of 280 amps DC, 195 amps AC are at %100 duty cycle..

            so I do not believe you have anything to worry about...
            the torch has a higher duty cycle than the welder (see page 16 )

            http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o253086e_mil.pdf

            here is the torch data sheet..

            http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AY30-0.pdf

            Totally agree with this
            This torch is plenty for this machine
            Burn it up and you may be tripping the thermal on the welder!
            Miller knows what they are doing. Just not always cheap.
            A bigger torch is NOT comfortable to use btw.

            www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
            MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
            Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
            Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

            Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
            Miller 30-A Spoolgun
            Miller WC-115-A
            Miller Spectrum 300
            Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
            Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

            Comment


            • #7
              That torch has PLENTY of capacity for the Dynasty 280DX..

              just compare the duty cycle specs...

              Derating the torch for AC is normal because during the positive half of the cycle most of the heat is going into the tungsten and thus into the torch..

              During DCEN most of the heat is going into the workpiece....so it can carry more amps than it would for AC...
              Last edited by H80N; 03-31-2014, 06:41 PM.
              .

              *******************************************
              The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

              Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

              My Blue Stuff:
              Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
              Dynasty 200DX
              Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
              Millermatic 200

              TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by H80N View Post
                That torch has PLENTY of capacity for the Dynasty 280DX..

                just compare the duty cycle specs...

                Derating the torch for AC is normal because during the positive half of the cycle most of the heat is going into the tungsten and thus into the torch..

                During DCEN most of the heat is going into the workpiece....so it can carry more amps than it would for AC...
                OK then, good clean aluminum, you might run near 90% EN on heavy material, not so very much heat back at the torch. I realize I am probably overreacting. Welding in the range of 280 amps seems a very rare thing for me. I saw the Diversion 180 as a mistake for me to have bought, then I realize my new super welder that cost a staggering sum is severely limited by a torch, to a level only slightly greater than the Diversion! I've paid $600. for a torch who's manufacturer says won't do the job! Had I paired torch to welder I'd be crushed, filled with self loathing. When the manufacturer does it I say WTF?
                Dynasty 280DX
                Bobcat 250
                MM252
                Spool gun
                Twentieth Century 295
                Twentieth Century 295 AC
                Marquette spot welder
                Smith torches

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dude
                  You are so not getting this!
                  The duty cycle on the torch is higher than the duty cycle on the welder.
                  I'm using nearly the same thing on my 700!
                  This is how it has been forever. The torch on the Diversion is rated way less as well.
                  All that being said, run the crap out of it! It's very doubtful you can feed enuff rod to even come close to duty cycle. It takes a LOT of very long and hot beads to do that. I would have that machine set on 280 more than one would think!
                  You have a very nice awesome package there and once you have used it for awhile you will fully realize just how capable it really is

                  www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                  Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                  MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                  Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                  Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                  Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                  Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                  Miller WC-115-A
                  Miller Spectrum 300
                  Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                  Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                    Dude
                    You are so not getting this!
                    The duty cycle on the torch is higher than the duty cycle on the welder.
                    I'm using nearly the same thing on my 700!
                    This is how it has been forever. The torch on the Diversion is rated way less as well.
                    All that being said, run the crap out of it! It's very doubtful you can feed enuff rod to even come close to duty cycle. It takes a LOT of very long and hot beads to do that. I would have that machine set on 280 more than one would think!
                    You have a very nice awesome package there and once you have used it for awhile you will fully realize just how capable it really is
                    I'm sure that both of you are right. As Weldcraft is now Miller, I wish they had expressed it in a different way. Perhaps 195 amps at 100% duty, tapering to 10% at 280. I would be very comfortable with that. The notion of not to exceed 195 was shocking to me. I presume warranty will be void if I melt it.
                    Has anyone melted one? What exactly fails? The size of the cable inside the water hose seems way too small, but a stream of water each pound absorbing perhaps 120 BTU will absorb heat. As I plead to my local power company over the last 45 years; if overhead cables were sized so they didn't produce so much heat, less energy would be wasted, you won't have to waste time trying to convince me that the wind blowing the heat away is the same as not generating it.Power quality would improve, less than perfect connections wouldn't burn off. Mrs. Jones would stop pestering her electrician about her computer misbehaving, and I would stop pestering employees of the power company about Mrs. Jones. You could build smaller power plants, less pollution, less global warming! Polar bears would be happy! Seal populations would be in natural balance. God would be in his heaven, and all would be right with the world! Best of all; power company employees would never have to listen to my speech again!

                    I digress! Am I over dramatizing?
                    Dynasty 280DX
                    Bobcat 250
                    MM252
                    Spool gun
                    Twentieth Century 295
                    Twentieth Century 295 AC
                    Marquette spot welder
                    Smith torches

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Willie B View Post
                      I'm sure that both of you are right. As Weldcraft is now Miller, I wish they had expressed it in a different way. Perhaps 195 amps at 100% duty, tapering to 10% at 280. I would be very comfortable with that. The notion of not to exceed 195 was shocking to me. I presume warranty will be void if I melt it.

                      Those numbers are at %100 Duty Cycle.... would expect the numbers to be much greater at lower duty cycle... You CAN exceed those numbers... just for a shorter duration... it is a time/output ratio... (duty cycle)


                      Originally posted by Willie B View Post
                      I digress! Am I over dramatizing?
                      A Bit but understandable...

                      Wedding night Jitters...

                      I did the same thing when I bought my Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner..several years back..

                      my unfounded concern was the single phase output...

                      an awkwardly written section of the manual made it look like actual output was reduced on single phase... it was just a reduction of duty cycle..

                      I was worried about investing in a $10K machine...

                      Will bet that I drove Fusion King and others nuts....(musta made em pull their hair..)

                      Anywho... fears were totally unfounded and the machine has been marvelous..

                      When all is said and done... I think you will find that you took the right girl home from the dance...
                      Last edited by H80N; 04-01-2014, 08:09 AM.
                      .

                      *******************************************
                      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                      My Blue Stuff:
                      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200DX
                      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                      Millermatic 200

                      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Read what people are saying. This torch is perfectly fit for this machine. If you are disappointed with the torch's specs you will likely be more disappointed with the machines specs. Do you understand the concept of a duty cycle?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wimpy torch on Dynasty 280 DX

                          I guess he doesn't realize his new super welder is not very super at or around 280 Amps.
                          Your welder has a 100% duty cycle at 200 A your torch has a 100% duty cycle at 195 amps ac. So at around 280 A you're only going to have a 25% duty cycle on the welder and torch would be similar too. that means you can only 2 1/2 minutes before you got to let it cool for 7 1/2 minutes. Miller supplied your Welder with a torch that was just as capable as your welder.
                          MM140 AS
                          375 Xstream
                          Diversion 180
                          Dynasty 200DX

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes I understand duty cycle. The language concerned me more. When a Miller subsidiary develops a torch to pair with a welder, then states in the manual, that the maximum amperage for the torch is 85 amps less than the welder. To me it feels equivalent to a fine print note in A WARRANTY STATING: THIS WARRANTY IS NULL AND VOID.
                            I guess I'm reading too much into it.
                            Last edited by WillieB; 04-01-2014, 10:20 AM.
                            Dynasty 280DX
                            Bobcat 250
                            MM252
                            Spool gun
                            Twentieth Century 295
                            Twentieth Century 295 AC
                            Marquette spot welder
                            Smith torches

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wimpy torch on Dynasty 280 DX

                              I think you are reading too much into it because that's maximum amperage at the 100% duty cycle.
                              If Interpret your welder same way you interpreting your torch that welders only a 200 amp welder at 100% duty cycle.
                              It's not going to void your warranty to weld at over 195 amps
                              MM140 AS
                              375 Xstream
                              Diversion 180
                              Dynasty 200DX

                              Comment

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