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  • Bobcat 225 NT fuel delivery problems

    I inherited a Bobcat 225 NT from my dad. It had been running fine as recently as last summer. I stored it in the fall, and pulled it out last week to do some work. The battery was dead, so I replaced that ( old one wouldn't hold a charge), and I checked the oil (level was fine). Anyway, when I tried to start it, it will turn over but not start.

    I pulled the air filter and sprayed a little starter fluid in the carb, and it will crank and run until the starter fluid is all gone, but then die. I tried again with gas putting a little in the carb, and it will run and die when all that gas is gone.

    Looking through these forums, I found that it might be fuel pump, so I tested it and it wasn't pulling any fuel. So, I replaced the fuel pump with a miller replacement (its the Kohler engine). Got that installed today and it still isn't working. Replaced all the fuel lines and put in a new vacuum hose, but when I try to start it just turns over and still never pulls any fuel.

    I read it might be the low oil pressure sensor, but I can't find that and there are no good pictures of what I am looking for online. I am not a mechanic, and I think i've reached the end of what I'm comfortable trying without pictures or step by step instructions.

    Any help is greatly appreciated,

    Wayne

  • #2
    From what you have posted I would say the carbuerator is gummed up. You most likely left it sitting up all this time with the carb full of fuel without running the engine any. That gas got old, and turned to varnish in the carb and has blocked up the passages. The carb will need to be removed, disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and reinstalled to get it running again. You will need a carbuerator rebuild kit for it to have all the needed gaskets and instructions on how to do it, as well as a good carbuerator cleaning solvent.
    When you get it done, make sure the tank has FRESH gas in it. Might want to siphon out all the old stuff before refilling.
    If it starts with starting fluid or gas put in the carb now, then that eliminates the oil pressure switch as a problem, as well as any firing problems. Of all you have done so far, the carb is the main suspect as to what your problem is. Get the model & family #'s off the engine and go to a small engine shop to get the rebuild kit. You could just take them the carb and let them do it if you are not comfortable doing it yourself, but it's really pretty simple with the included instructions.
    After you have it back running again, make sure to run it every month or so to keep this from happening again. Start it up and let it run for 5-10 minutes at least. Either that or disconnect the feul line and run it till it runs all the gas out of the carb, if you won't be around to start it up from time to time. A good fuel stabilizer(like Sta-Bil) mixed with the gas helps a lot too. I mix Sta-Bil in the gas on my Bobcat at twice the dosage AND I periodically run it when I don't use it for awhile.
    Where in Texas are you?
    Last edited by Bistineau; 02-03-2014, 02:27 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you sure your new fuel pump is working properly? Before you go to any great lengths make sure you are getting fuel to the carb. I have the same welder as you do and this happened when my welder was not used for some time also.
      Nick

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kiwi View Post
        Are you sure your new fuel pump is working properly? Before you go to any great lengths make sure you are getting fuel to the carb. I have the same welder as you do and this happened when my welder was not used for some time also.
        Nick
        I have also had times when My Bobcat sat for too long, and the fuel pump lost prime. But I just added a little gas down the throat of the carb, hit the starter and it fired right up. But seeing as he has started it before using this method, it is most likely a carb issue. Disconnecting the fuel line at the carb and starting it with a fuel prime should cause it to discharge some fuel out of the line. However he has not mentioned how much fuel is in the tank, it needs to have some in there or the pump won't be able to pick any up. Hopefully it has some fresh gas in it by now, a half a tank(at least) would be a good starting point.
        I just checked his profile, and he has not been back on the site since he first posted this delema on here, so I guess any further comments on it will need to wait until he is actively engaged with the responses. You figure he would have checked back in by now if he actually wanted an answer. Oh well, can't help him if he won't log back in for it.
        Last edited by Bistineau; 02-04-2014, 09:32 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks!

          Thanks for your response. I think i can pull off the rebuild if it has instructions. Would a gummed up carb cause the fuel pump to not even try to siphon fuel?

          I'm in Stephenville, southwest of Ft. Worth....

          WA

          Originally posted by Bistineau View Post
          From what you have posted I would say the carbuerator is gummed up. You most likely left it sitting up all this time with the carb full of fuel without running the engine any. That gas got old, and turned to varnish in the carb and has blocked up the passages. The carb will need to be removed, disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and reinstalled to get it running again. You will need a carbuerator rebuild kit for it to have all the needed gaskets and instructions on how to do it, as well as a good carbuerator cleaning solvent.
          When you get it done, make sure the tank has FRESH gas in it. Might want to siphon out all the old stuff before refilling.
          If it starts with starting fluid or gas put in the carb now, then that eliminates the oil pressure switch as a problem, as well as any firing problems. Of all you have done so far, the carb is the main suspect as to what your problem is. Get the model & family #'s off the engine and go to a small engine shop to get the rebuild kit. You could just take them the carb and let them do it if you are not comfortable doing it yourself, but it's really pretty simple with the included instructions.
          After you have it back running again, make sure to run it every month or so to keep this from happening again. Start it up and let it run for 5-10 minutes at least. Either that or disconnect the feul line and run it till it runs all the gas out of the carb, if you won't be around to start it up from time to time. A good fuel stabilizer(like Sta-Bil) mixed with the gas helps a lot too. I mix Sta-Bil in the gas on my Bobcat at twice the dosage AND I periodically run it when I don't use it for awhile.
          Where in Texas are you?

          Comment


          • #6
            The tank has about 5 gallons of new gas that I added when we we pulled it out to start it last week. Is there a way to prime the fuel pump? If I disconnect the hose going to the tank I can feel some suction, but not what I would expect if it was trying to pull fuel up the entire ~18" of tube.

            I am not a welder by trade (I actually teach Ag Communication at the local college), so I have been otherwise distracted from getting back on the message board. But I do appreciate the responses, and will try to see if anything will help. I spoke with our ag mechanics instructor, and he suggested some of the same things y'all have mentioned. If I fail at getting this to run, I have considered taking it to school to see if one of the students can fix it!

            I did notice the fuel line connection to the tank (the metal piece going into the tank that I connect to the fuel line) is lose. I can actually pull it and the tube going into the tank completely out. Would that cause any problems?

            Thanks for your assistance,

            WA


            Originally posted by Bistineau View Post
            I have also had times when My Bobcat sat for too long, and the fuel pump lost prime. But I just added a little gas down the throat of the carb, hit the starter and it fired right up. But seeing as he has started it before using this method, it is most likely a carb issue. Disconnecting the fuel line at the carb and starting it with a fuel prime should cause it to discharge some fuel out of the line. However he has not mentioned how much fuel is in the tank, it needs to have some in there or the pump won't be able to pick any up. Hopefully it has some fresh gas in it by now, a half a tank(at least) would be a good starting point.
            I just checked his profile, and he has not been back on the site since he first posted this delema on here, so I guess any further comments on it will need to wait until he is actively engaged with the responses. You figure he would have checked back in by now if he actually wanted an answer. Oh well, can't help him if he won't log back in for it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Not sure how to test the fuel pump. Is there a way to test it with the engine not running?

              Originally posted by kiwi View Post
              Are you sure your new fuel pump is working properly? Before you go to any great lengths make sure you are getting fuel to the carb. I have the same welder as you do and this happened when my welder was not used for some time also.
              Nick

              Comment


              • #8
                pump....

                Originally posted by W-Atchley View Post
                Not sure how to test the fuel pump. Is there a way to test it with the engine not running?
                .
                I will get flamed for this but to many people here dont have a clue how to troubleshoot a simple no start. You replaced the pump and connected all the lines the same way right. They are pluse pumps so hooking the lines up wrong will keep it from working, if your postive it is connected right then take the suction line and insert it in a jug of fuel if it starts pumping you have a broken pickup tube, if it does not work then bad new pump or hooked up wrong.
                Once you have fuel going to carb, remove the line and see if fuel is flowing, check the fuel shut off solenoid on the carb(some kohlers have them, some dont) it will be in the front of the carb and a red wire attaches to it, it must have 12 volts to start.) If that is good, then the needle and seat is stuck, you can try gently taping the carb bowl to see if it unsticks, or take the 4 screws out of the carb assembly and it will split, you will need to pull the needle out of the seat, put her back together and it should start, you also can try pouring seafoam into the fuel line that feeds the carb and allowing it sit a day or so.
                If your getting no fuel to carb i would bet the fuel pump is hooked up wrong.
                Kevin
                Lincoln ranger 305g x2
                Ln25
                Miller spectrum 625
                Miller 30a spoolgun
                Wc115a
                Lincoln 210mp
                F550 imt service truck

                Comment


                • #9
                  make sure the choke flap is moving closed and open they can get stuck.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by W-Atchley View Post
                    Not sure how to test the fuel pump. Is there a way to test it with the engine not running?
                    No, there is no good way to test it without the engine running. It is a vacuum operated pump, the vacuum is supplied by the running engine. That is why I suggested you can disconnect the fuel hose at the carb and run the engine for short periods as you were before by putting some fuel in the carb. Since you say it will run this way, it will provide the needed running time to pull fuel to the pump and discharge it from the open end of the hose. Once you have the fuel that far, reconnect the hose and try it again.
                    Having a Completely full tank can help to prime the pump, as the filler neck opening is above the level of the pump, creating a head pressure to push fuel into the suction side of the pump.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tryagn5 View Post
                      .
                      You replaced the pump and connected all the lines the same way right.

                      hooking the lines up wrong will keep it from working, if your postive it is connected right then take the suction line and insert it in a jug of fuel if it starts pumping you have a broken pickup tube, if it does not work then bad new pump or hooked up wrong.

                      Or you can blow air by mouth into the pump suction line and listen for bubbling in the tank, indicating the pump suction line in the tank is below the fuel level.


                      Once you have fuel going to carb, remove the line and see if fuel is flowing, check the fuel shut off solenoid on the carb(some kohlers have them, some dont) it will be in the front of the carb and a red wire attaches to it, it must have 12 volts to start.) If that is good, then the needle and seat is stuck, you can try gently taping the carb bowl to see if it unsticks, or take the 4 screws out of the carb assembly and it will split, you will need to pull the needle out of the seat, put her back together and it should start, you also can try pouring seafoam into the fuel line that feeds the carb and allowing it sit a day or so.
                      If your getting no fuel to carb i would bet the fuel pump is hooked up wrong.
                      Kevin
                      Good point on the fuel solenoid valve to the carb. My Bobcat doesn't have one, but a mower I have with the same Kohler engine does(only difference between them is one is horizontal shaft, the other vertical). Don't know if this one has it or not.
                      Removing the float bowl to check for a stuck needle valve is a good idea too(just didn't think about it at first). If it only needs to be freed up to get it to work, that is simple too. Also it will get any old gas out of the float bowl so fresh gas can get it there.
                      If there IS a fuel solenoid valve that is not working or the needle valve is stuck closed, that will prevent the fuel pump from purging the air out of itself to prime(why I suggested disconnecting the hose in my last post). Get the fuel thru the pump and going to the carb to continue checking for a no start.

                      If you were closer to the Waskom area I would come over and help you with this.
                      Last edited by Bistineau; 02-05-2014, 10:33 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Be sure to let us know when you get it fired up and running right and what the actual problem turned out to be. Many times when someone comes on here with a problem like this and gets lots of replies, they are never heard from again. They used the info provided, fixed the problem and moved on. Then we are left hanging as to the outcome of all our replies and don't know if it was ever resolved. Not to mention, people in the future that come along with the same/similar problem that read the thread and can't find out if any of the info provided helped any. With providing the detail of what the actual cause of the problem is, they may want to check there first.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for for the extra detail. I will give that a try this weekend when I am back at home.

                          Originally posted by Bistineau View Post
                          No, there is no good way to test it without the engine running. It is a vacuum operated pump, the vacuum is supplied by the running engine. That is why I suggested you can disconnect the fuel hose at the carb and run the engine for short periods as you were before by putting some fuel in the carb. Since you say it will run this way, it will provide the needed running time to pull fuel to the pump and discharge it from the open end of the hose. Once you have the fuel that far, reconnect the hose and try it again.
                          Having a Completely full tank can help to prime the pump, as the filler neck opening is above the level of the pump, creating a head pressure to push fuel into the suction side of the pump.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I saw saw this one last, but I think between your posts and this one I will hopefully get it to work. I will post back after I try these things this weekend.

                            Originally posted by Bistineau View Post
                            Good point on the fuel solenoid valve to the carb. My Bobcat doesn't have one, but a mower I have with the same Kohler engine does(only difference between them is one is horizontal shaft, the other vertical). Don't know if this one has it or not.
                            Removing the float bowl to check for a stuck needle valve is a good idea too(just didn't think about it at first). If it only needs to be freed up to get it to work, that is simple too. Also it will get any old gas out of the float bowl so fresh gas can get it there.
                            If there IS a fuel solenoid valve that is not working or the needle valve is stuck closed, that will prevent the fuel pump from purging the air out of itself to prime(why I suggested disconnecting the hose in my last post). Get the fuel thru the pump and going to the carb to continue checking for a no start.

                            If you were closer to the Waskom area I would come over and help you with this.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for for taking the time to reply. I installed the new pump like the old one was installed and it looks like it is correct. I will double check and then look at the carb, but I get nervous taking too many things apart so if I get in there and freak out, I might end up taking it to the engine lab at school and cash in a favor!

                              thanks again to everyone for the assistance.



                              Originally posted by Tryagn5 View Post
                              .
                              I will get flamed for this but to many people here dont have a clue how to troubleshoot a simple no start. You replaced the pump and connected all the lines the same way right. They are pluse pumps so hooking the lines up wrong will keep it from working, if your postive it is connected right then take the suction line and insert it in a jug of fuel if it starts pumping you have a broken pickup tube, if it does not work then bad new pump or hooked up wrong.
                              Once you have fuel going to carb, remove the line and see if fuel is flowing, check the fuel shut off solenoid on the carb(some kohlers have them, some dont) it will be in the front of the carb and a red wire attaches to it, it must have 12 volts to start.) If that is good, then the needle and seat is stuck, you can try gently taping the carb bowl to see if it unsticks, or take the 4 screws out of the carb assembly and it will split, you will need to pull the needle out of the seat, put her back together and it should start, you also can try pouring seafoam into the fuel line that feeds the carb and allowing it sit a day or so.
                              If your getting no fuel to carb i would bet the fuel pump is hooked up wrong.
                              Kevin

                              Comment

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