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  • Need some advice - stick or mig?

    Hey all, I've got a personal project I'm working on and am getting pulled in a couple of difference directions so I figured I'd see if you guys could help.
    I've got to weld some grouser bars onto a sheet of steel. The sheet is about 1/4" thick, and the bars are 1"x2" (stood on edge, so it will be 2" tall, layed out at 45 degree angles). I have a Miller 252 running 75/25 gas, .035 70s6 wire. I'm an average welder on my good days. Some who know about this project have suggested that stick welding would be better with probably a 7018 rod. I am pretty familiar with stick welding but have never done it...I've never even struck an arc with one before. I do have access to a stick welder though. My question is, is there really an advantage here to one over the other? Especially considering I will be learning the stick as I go? These bars are under a ton of pressure and need to hold, so I'm open to any suggestions.
    Thanks for any help.

    Justin

  • #2
    Your mig set up and 7018 should be equal. I would think the metal would tear away from the weld if they came loose...Bob
    Bob Wright

    Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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    • #3
      aametalmaster
      Your mig set up and 7018 should be equal. I would think the metal would tear away from the weld if they came loose...Bob

      +1

      and your mig will be mucho faster without the flux to clean

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      • #4
        I would definitely use the process you are comfortable with if it is a critical part. With that said, it really doesn't sound like you should be welding anything critical based on your question. No offense, just throwing it out there, but maybe you should have it welded by a professional.

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        • #5
          I go Mig if I can get to the job, If there is climbing and places I can't out the Mig with inside 10 feet or so, then bring on the rods.

          Thicker steel butt joint or situations where penetration is a have to, 6010 wins every time for me. Got a boom truck tomorrow evening, don't know much about its problems.

          Taking stick, Mig and a dry rig (tig off engine drive) and that should cover about anything. I hope.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
            I would definitely use the process you are comfortable with if it is a critical part. With that said, it really doesn't sound like you should be welding anything critical based on your question. No offense, just throwing it out there, but maybe you should have it welded by a professional.
            I won't argue against that at all. I have several great welders at my disposal, it's just a money thing that keeps me from hiring them.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ParkerFly View Post
              Hey all, I've got a personal project I'm working on and am getting pulled in a couple of difference directions so I figured I'd see if you guys could help.
              I've got to weld some grouser bars onto a sheet of steel. The sheet is about 1/4" thick, and the bars are 1"x2" (stood on edge, so it will be 2" tall, layed out at 45 degree angles). I have a Miller 252 running 75/25 gas, .035 70s6 wire. I'm an average welder on my good days. Some who know about this project have suggested that stick welding would be better with probably a 7018 rod. I am pretty familiar with stick welding but have never done it...I've never even struck an arc with one before. I do have access to a stick welder though. My question is, is there really an advantage here to one over the other? Especially considering I will be learning the stick as I go? These bars are under a ton of pressure and need to hold, so I'm open to any suggestions.
              Thanks for any help.

              Justin
              I am no expert by any means! That being said-I would use the Miller 252 with flux core wire. You don't have to worry about getting gas coverage in the joint. And you don't have to try to get a stick into the tight corner! IMO

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              • #8
                Getting a stick into a tight corner? I would think that that would be the best thing for a "tight corner" far better than any mig gun setup (flux core or not).

                Comment


                • #9
                  In this instance...My vote is for MIG....

                  with proper joint prep it will be as strong or stronger than stick... and a lot less fuss...

                  You already have the MM252.. a very capable machine.. more than equal to the job... why futz with stick?? industry has moved to MIG for production.. why not the rest of us..

                  Anything that I would have done with stick years ago has been taken care of handily by my MM350P or MM200... for the last several years... been a few years since I even burnt a stick
                  .

                  *******************************************
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                  • #10
                    If you were "me" I'd stick weld it cause that's what I do but if I was "you" I'd mig weld it cause that's the process you're familiar with. If you lay down some good beads and there is really that much pressure on it, the blocks will likely rip chunks out of the plate if/when they fail. Care to share what you're building?---Meltedmetal

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                    • #11
                      I agree to an extent. I have converted the company I work for to mig for about 90% of weld situations. The one place for stick is pipe welding and my company does solely oil and gas pipe lines. The other time I feel stick is acceptible is if you are doing a repair and can't get the seam as clean as you would like and mig leaves porosity. Sometimes that first pass is justified with stick. The other situation is if a mechanic goes to do a repair at a job site and the time to weld a repair or small fab with stick is shorter than the time to hook up and disconnect the suitcase feeder. One last area for stick is doing stud removal on broken off small diameter studs that are below the surface. I am not sure I will ever find anything better than Cronatron 338 rods for this situation. Dave
                      Originally posted by H80N View Post
                      In this instance...My vote is for MIG....

                      with proper joint prep it will be as strong or stronger than stick... and a lot less fuss...

                      You already have the MM252.. a very capable machine.. more than equal to the job... why futz with stick?? industry has moved to MIG for production.. why not the rest of us..

                      Anything that I would have done with stick years ago has been taken care of handily by my MM350P or MM200... for the last several years... been a few years since I even burnt a stick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by H80N View Post
                        In this instance...My vote is for MIG....

                        with proper joint prep it will be as strong or stronger than stick... and a lot less fuss...

                        You already have the MM252.. a very capable machine.. more than equal to the job... why futz with stick?? industry has moved to MIG for production.. why not the rest of us..

                        Anything that I would have done with stick years ago has been taken care of handily by my MM350P or MM200... for the last several years... been a few years since I even burnt a stick
                        I have to agree , this is why you have a 252 so you can. The only real reason I use stick around/in the shop is because I can or convenience. It seems I can remember a stretch of years never using a stick.

                        I could do 99% of the jobs with a 175.

                        But, the original question was kind of vague if I recall. Its so rare I need real heavy welding I do it with short circuit, warm the parts etc and its one off type things or vertical/overhead.
                        Last edited by Sberry; 11-17-2013, 08:07 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post
                          Care to share what you're building?---Meltedmetal
                          Actually just replacing...if you're familiar with truck and tractor pulling, on the sled that they pull it has a pan that drags the ground. These bars are welded onto the bottom side of it so that the pan will bite into the ground. The old ones were worn down and I'm going back with new. The pan can have close to 50,000 lbs. on it at its heaviest, so the bars catch a pretty good load.
                          Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll stick to trying to MIG these on. I guess all this goes back to where a lot of people think stick welding is stronger for some reason and I wanted to make sure I was making the right decision here.

                          Justin

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                          • #14
                            Couple of things that come to mind here in this instance:

                            (1) For me here in Nevada, the WIND is often what determines which I am going to use...lotta wind = STICK WELD, whereas no wind = MIG weld, but then I am equally comfortable with either. A secondary thing here is access...I have NEVER seen leads for a MIG setup that are as long as what you can easily have for STICK welding.....

                            (2) Given that you say you are more of a MIG guy than a STICK guy, I'd advise doing everything you can to get it inside, out of the wind and then STICK welding it. Using a cored MIG wire can be a benefit and make things easier, though!!
                            Don J
                            Reno, NV

                            Never pick a fight with an old guy. Old guys are too smart to fight and get hurt. They'll just kill you and get it over with.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for the info. I never got deeply into pulling but a few of the guys around here did and I've done some work for a few of them. I've never had the opportunity to lift the "leg" of a pulling boat and look underneath so its's interesting to hear that"s how it is done. Maybe you should consider hardfacing the front and bottom edges of the blocks to get more wear out them.
                              It seems to me that in the early days of Mig that it was not really trusted unless there were 3 engineers overseeing the project and many hours of testing and re-testing done and written protocols and a supervisor living in your back pocket etc., etc.. Nowadays it has become the "go to" process and is generally considered the easiest process to learn. New wires and new equipment has really changed the world of welding but I'm just an antique with antique equipment but its interesting to see the new stuff. I just recently noticed that there is an attempt to replace some automated Tig welding with plasma welding. Must be using metal powder instead of wire I guess.---Meltedmetal

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