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4943 for 356 Aluminum TIG Casting repair..?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by MMW View Post
    Are you saying 4943 will replace 4043 in all or most applications? Do you see any downside?
    Sure does look like it...

    I think Terry (Shovelon) has the most experience with it around here and he is pretty positive on it...

    My experience is much less... but all good...
    .

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    • #17
      Am going to try and get somebody from Hobart/Maxal to chime in on 4943 and maybe give us some more in depth info...

      It is a propriatery alloy and relatively new...they are the only ones that have it...
      Last edited by H80N; 12-10-2013, 08:11 AM.
      .

      *******************************************
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      • #18
        Originally posted by MMW View Post
        Are you saying 4943 will replace 4043 in all or most applications? Do you see any downside?
        I don't see any downside whatsoever. My biggest concern was it's ability to take chem film. The latest job I did got chem film, and it took it fine. 5356 does not take chem film well.

        As far as strength, I can really tell the improvement. It is less gummy for threading like 4043 is but I still prefer the 5356 as I have used it for years.

        What gets me is how fast 4943 wets. I barely strike an arc to the root, add filler and whammy I am off. More forgiving than 5356 on castings.

        What I don't like is the price.
        Nothing welded, Nothing gained

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        • #19
          It's good to see that there is interest in the 4943 alloy on the Miller forum.

          Let me introduce myself...I am the Senior Welding Engineer for Hobart Aluminum (formerly Maxal) and am the Product Specialist for the eastern half of the US. I have been with the ITW Welding Group since 1998 and was a Welding Engineer for Miller Electric in Appleton, WI for 5-1/2 years and worked on several of the Millermatic products (MM 210, MM 251, MM350P to name a few). Prior to coming to Maxal I was the Welding Engineer at the ITW Corporate Welding Technology Center in Chicago. Please feel free to contact me via email if you ever have aluminum welding related questions.

          Here are the updated datasheets for all the aluminum alloys offered by Hobart Aluminum:

          Maxal 1100
          Maxal 4043
          Maxal 4047
          Maxal 4943
          Maxal 5183
          Maxal 5356
          Maxal 5554
          Maxal 5556

          Also, here is the 4943 Article in AWS Welding Journal from the July 2013 issue.

          I will attempt to answer some of the open questions:

          "Are you saying 4943 will replace 4043 in all or most applications? Do you see any downside?"
          Yes, 4943 can be used as a replacement anywhere 4043 is currently being used. In the as welded condition it will produce 50% higher yield strength and 25% higher UTS. 4043 as welded tensile strength is 28 ksi and 4943 is 35 ksi.

          Due to its chemistry it is also heat treatable (4043 is not) so if you need higher strengths it can be post weld age and achieve 42 ksi (same strength as 6061-T6) and even higher strength can be achieved if you PWHT&A (49 ksi).


          Is 4943 gummy like 4043...or can it be machined and threaded like 5356...just curious if anybody has experience on that aspect..
          You might notice that 4943 is slightly less gummy than 4043 but not appreciably. 5356 is 'harder' due to the 5% Mg in it's chemistry whereas 4943 is 5% silicon and 0.4% Mg.

          Price is higher

          Yes, the price is slightly higher but we have no control over what our distributors charge. If you don't like the price your distributor is charging, check with another distributor in your area--they might sell it for less. Because its a new alloy, they might be charging more up front because they may feel that there is some level of 'risk' in stocking this alloy. Here is a link to find Hobart Distributors. As more people start requesting 4943 the distributors will begin stocking it regularly and this might cause the price to drop some.

          Regards,
          Galen

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          • #20
            Thank you Galen & welcome to this forum. I hope you will stick around & add your knowledge here in the future.
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            • #21
              Thanks Galen..!!

              you are a valued technical resource....
              .

              *******************************************
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              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

              Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

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              • #22
                4943 for ALUSIL casting...

                A question came up the other day about welding up an ALUSIL engine block bracket on an old Porsche 928S4....

                is 4943 the correct filler..?? if not what is??

                Did a little looking around and could not find a good answer...

                this is a structural member but NOT cylinder liner...

                ALUSIL is common in many european engines...

                anybody have an answer..?? Galen??

                Here is a thread on ALUSIL

                http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...m-engine-block

                and some good info on ALUSIL from it..

                Originally posted by captkipp View Post
                Alusil as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (AlSi17Cu4Mg) contains approximately 70% aluminium and 30% silicon.[1][2] This alloy was created in 1927 by Schweizer & Fehrenbach[3] of Baden-Baden Germany and further developed by Kolbenschmidt.[2]

                The Alusil aluminium alloy is commonly used to make linerless aluminium alloy engine blocks.[4] Alusil, when etched, will expose a very hard silicon precipitate. The silicon surface is porous enough to hold oil, and is an excellent bearing surface. BMW switched from Nikasil-coated cylinder walls to Alusil in 1996 to eliminate the corrosion problems caused through the use of petrol/gasoline containing sulfur.

                Engines using Alusil include:

                Audi 2.4 V6[1][5]
                Audi 3.2 FSI V6[5]
                Audi 4.2 FSI V8[1][3]
                Audi 5.2 FSI V10
                Audi/Volkswagen 6.0 W12
                BMW N52 I6
                BMW M62 V8
                BMW N62 V8
                BMW V12[6]
                Porsche 928 V8
                Porsche 924S I4
                Porsche 944 I4
                Porsche 968 I4
                Porsche Cayenne V8[3]
                Last edited by H80N; 12-15-2013, 12:25 PM.
                .

                *******************************************
                The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                My Blue Stuff:
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                • #23
                  actual alusil composition

                  Originally posted by H80N View Post
                  A question came up the other day about welding up an ALUSIL engine block bracket on an old Porsche 928S4....

                  is 4943 the correct filler..?? if not what is??


                  Here is a thread on ALUSIL

                  http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...m-engine-block

                  and some good info on ALUSIL from it..
                  Below credit to Wiki:
                  Alusil as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (Al17Si4CuMg or A390) contains approximately 78% aluminium and 17% silicon.[1][2] This alloy was created in 1927 by Schweizer & Fehrenbach[3] of Baden-Baden Germany and further developed by Kolbenschmidt.[2]


                  17% silicon content is a whale of a lot different than 30% silicon.
                  The 30% content in Capt. Kidd's post is in error.

                  http://www.steelnumber.com/en/steel_...p?name_id=1254

                  The above link has equivalencies from US to European, etc. grades
                  and compositions.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by dave powelson View Post
                    Below credit to Wiki:
                    Alusil as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (Al17Si4CuMg or A390) contains approximately 78% aluminium and 17% silicon.[1][2] This alloy was created in 1927 by Schweizer & Fehrenbach[3] of Baden-Baden Germany and further developed by Kolbenschmidt.[2]


                    17% silicon content is a whale of a lot different than 30% silicon.
                    The 30% content in Capt. Kidd's post is in error.

                    http://www.steelnumber.com/en/steel_...p?name_id=1254

                    The above link has equivalencies from US to European, etc. grades
                    and compositions.
                    Dave

                    Thanks for the corrected info...

                    that makes the U.S. Equiv out to be.... B390.0
                    .

                    *******************************************
                    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                    My Blue Stuff:
                    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
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                    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                    Millermatic 200

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                    • #25
                      I did find a German specialty rod for ALUSIL... that might be suitable..

                      but I sure hate to order something from overseas if something domestic will do a good job..

                      here is the datasheet..

                      http://www.technolit.de/App/WebObjec.../Alusil-S.html


                      Also found a source that claimed 4145 filler was suitable..

                      http://www.weldingwire.com/applicati...pload/4145.pdf
                      Last edited by H80N; 12-15-2013, 02:43 PM.
                      .

                      *******************************************
                      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                      My Blue Stuff:
                      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200DX
                      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                      Millermatic 200

                      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

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                      • #26
                        If the Alusil alloy is truly A390 then its chemistry is:

                        16.0-18.0% silicon
                        0.50% Fe
                        4.0-5.0% Cu
                        0.10% Mn
                        0.45-0.65% Mg
                        0.10% Zn
                        0.20% Ti
                        Remainder aluminum

                        The German filler rod on the Techolit web page is nothing more than R4047 which is available at almost any welding distributor and has the closest match for silicon at 12%.

                        4145 has probably the closest overall chemistry match:

                        9.3-10.7% Si
                        0.8% Fe
                        3.3-4.7% Cu
                        0.15% Mn
                        0.15% Mg
                        0.20% Zn

                        On most filler metal selection charts 4043 and 4145 are normally listed for welding these types of castings (4047 and 4943 are interchangeable for 4043 in all applications).

                        In a nutshell, 4047, 4145, 4943 or 4043 should work.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Hobart Aluminum View Post

                          In a nutshell, 4047, 4145, 4943 or 4043 should work.
                          Awesome.

                          Thanks!
                          Nothing welded, Nothing gained

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                          • #28
                            Just noticed and read this AWS article on 4943.. from Galen's answer

                            http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aws/...tid=Cover1#/36

                            figured if I missed it... others may have also

                            Really good background and alloy comparison...

                            pretty cool..
                            .

                            *******************************************
                            The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                            “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                            Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                            My Blue Stuff:
                            Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                            Dynasty 200DX
                            Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                            Millermatic 200

                            TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

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                            • #29
                              I use 4943. It flows real nice.....welded up a 6061-tc angle frame the other day.....I still use 4043 for all cast repairs though...Dave
                              Originally posted by H80N View Post
                              Just noticed and read this AWS article on 4943.. from Galen's answer

                              http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aws/...tid=Cover1#/36

                              figured if I missed it... others may have also

                              Really good background and alloy comparison...

                              pretty cool..

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JerseyWelder View Post
                                I use 4943. It flows real nice.....welded up a 6061-tc angle frame the other day.....I still use 4043 for all cast repairs though...Dave
                                From all that I can see... 4943 offers superior performance to 4043 in welding cast as well..

                                what is the reasoning in using 4043 for that purpose if you have 4943 on hand..??

                                The merits of 4943 on TIG welding cast aluminum as opposed to other alloys like 4043 was the reason for starting this thread in the first place...and all points pro and con.. so if you could elaborate why... am sure many of us would like to hear..
                                Last edited by H80N; 02-02-2014, 09:46 AM.
                                .

                                *******************************************
                                The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                                “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                                Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                                My Blue Stuff:
                                Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                                Dynasty 200DX
                                Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                                Millermatic 200

                                TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

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