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How would you repair this.

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  • How would you repair this.

    Couldn't do this job in the time it was needed before I go to my regular job. Plus I wasn't prepared with the steel I needed. So I had to send it to another shop, that was the best I could help.

    Makes me sick. The other side had the same repair with a about 20 inches of flat bar maybe 1/4 thick running down the bottom extending well beyond the crack and as far on the other side as possible. Had 4 inch welds about 4 inches apart on each side of the flat bar. Just approximate to that spec the best I could see at a glance. May have been welding around the crack but still had a visible hole.

    So how would you have repaired it?

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  • #2
    I most likely would of ground it clean & depending on thickness maybe vee it out & weld it up. Doesn't look like you can get to the bottom without getting it up in the air? If I couldn't get the bottom then I'd fab up a channel to slide over from the bottom & weld that on.

    Just my take by looking at the pics. Might change my mind in person. It also depends on the customer & what they are looking for.

    Comment


    • #3
      He said it would raise pretty high so maybe make the pieces and fab onto the tubing as channel in the end.

      But I like the channel idea.

      What it did do was encourage me to drop by City Hall. Need that city business license inside the city limits.

      I live outside the city and the cost is 80 dollars for a license up too 2000 dollars in work.
      However if you on a job with a cost less than 250 dollars you don't need a license.

      When the job cost 250 or more, you pay the 80 and then add jobs to that 80 dollar license until you reach 2000, then you have to buy another license.

      Yea off topic but this job in the city finally got me up to check on this.

      Comment


      • #4
        I know it's off-topic but are you saying that if, for example, you had a $10,000 job that you'd have to go get 5 licenses at $80 a pop? Isn't that a lot like a 4% tax on YOUR work? Not exactly business friendly, eh?

        Comment


        • #5
          First off I'm not starting any arguements here, I have no lawyers in the family : ) Just some info based on my experience and observation.

          There is an incredible amount of liability in those two pictures. Anybody that welds on that trailer best have a large liability policy and be sure it covers on highway vehicles (most don't).

          I've had calls to look at many haulers and a lot of them are in poor shape, well past their usable lifespan and already (poorly) repaired several times.

          But regardless, when they are sitting on the side of the road with one (new) car smashing the hood of another (new) car, and some trailer structure dinging other (new) cars because a scab plate some guy cobbled on, is not a happy experience for anybody but the lawyers. And the crane company who gets to come out and unsort the mess. And the heavy tow co that hauls the straped up mess in and the auctioneer who disposes of the iron.

          Your repair, on a piece of iron like this, has to meet or exceed the original integrity of the trailer or you are dead meat. Welding repairs on any engineered product where life/limb is at risk are so, so tricky. Future failure can be in a spot (seemingly) unrelated to your repair, doesn't matter.

          And even if you DO have large liability coverage on that sort of vehicle, They'll still try to come after the weld co owner. It's the shotgun approach to liability, shoot everybody and make them come to court and prove they knew what they were doing, had successful previous experience, and were having a particularly good day. Inc or LLC be damed, they'll come for you.

          So in my opinion, you were fortunate to not make the repair. Asking others how to do it, on the interweb, is a bad sign.

          Again, I didn't create the American legal system, but I do understand how harsh (and life crippling expensive) it can be in weldland for people who are innocent or guilty (and asking how on a forum pretty much makes you guilty).

          That's just my (hopefully helpful, probably not) opinion, others will surely differ. I've never seen a car hauler job I was willing to take and I have stupid levels of unrestricted liability ins. and access to decent engineers.

          Wrote a stinking novel there, huh? Sorry bout that.

          J

          Comment


          • #6
            JTMcC made the smartest comments about this I have ever read on a forum.

            Do not dismiss this simple warning!!!

            I don't weld on anything that rolls on the road.

            -Ian

            Comment


            • #7
              How would you repair this.

              X2 on one of the best advice tips ever read here.
              JTMcC, well done sir!!

              Posts like that are why I am only subscribed to this forum.

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree I think about that crap all the time, however I'll still work on things if I have time to overkill it. ie exceeding what it is or should be.

                Asking how others would go about it is just getting in here and learning more. Has anybody ever done that? WTF?? I didn't work on it but still wanted opinions so those comments about a bad sign or whatever you said could piss a person off.

                That truck is on the road without repair. The shop I sent him to called back and said he never showed up.

                I seriously doubt the rig will be scrapped due to being past its serviceable life over some 1/8" wall tubing. It will be repaired when the owner will park it long enough for someone to do it. AND be 5 times stronger than it was.

                It is cracked all the way around and looks like it supports that Lexus on top per the hydraulic cylinder. While that is certainly running down to it, inside supports are carrying the weight IMO. There is no way a trailer manufacture would carry a vehicle on horizontal 1/8th wall tubing. But who knows.

                The owner claimed the tubing was broken due to changing flats / lifting the rig. I don't know.

                It was one of those things I wanted to do, but I didn't want to do at the same time. I knew the accident, insurance liability post would show up. I think it should to keep people thinking about risk. Some risk are higher than others but not much can be considered risk free.

                Now I am worried about that tip on a cast aluminum gutter break I welded today. If that breaks and the guy falls on it running it through an artery, my azz has had it.

                I certainly think about risk on everything. Mostly due to the welding gods on here
                and the constant reminders of it. But I honestly thank you guys for doing so. No joke.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dobermann View Post
                  I know it's off-topic but are you saying that if, for example, you had a $10,000 job that you'd have to go get 5 licenses at $80 a pop? Isn't that a lot like a 4% tax on YOUR work? Not exactly business friendly, eh?
                  Well I don't know if that's the case, I think she was just explaining my case as I told her I was interested in doing small jobs. There may be a limit. Seemed for every question I asked there was a long pause before I got an answer.

                  It started as you must come by and get a license, pause ,,, well if under 250 you don't have to. But over that you have to first. Then I asked who would give it to me on the weekend. long pause, well you'll need to come in Monday after because our guy does keep an eye out on weekends.

                  oh well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hardrock40 View Post

                    It will be repaired when the owner will park it long enough for someone to do it. AND be 5 times stronger than it was.

                    .




                    There's two major mistakes in that simple statement.

                    Don't assume a car hauler will ever see a proper repair. I've took a lot of pictures of the repairs on them over the years (including cars dropped down on top of other cars and trailer structural pieces jammed into cars) and never yet seen one that was done right. I'm sure they are out there but never laid eyes on it yet.

                    # two is the "5 times stronger". If you make a free standing "something" 5X stronger it was either very poorly designed in the first place, or you've just spent way to much customer money.
                    If it's not a free standing item, ie part of a system like a car hauler member is, then you've just built in (at least) two obvious points of failure.
                    Even a well welded repair of one point on a light structural member if, it's not designed, will ultimately result in multiple failures in the rest of the member or in it's connection points/adjacent members.

                    None of it matters if your welding on dirt equipment, but 80 mph down the freeway is dangerous territory for welding work.

                    If this annoys you you can put me on "ignore", I think, and not see my rambling posts. But every one of them comes from direct observation or personal experience.
                    I don't want to see anybody loose everything they've worked for over a property damage claim or worse yet a personal injury claim. But I have. And some of them deserved it based on the damage that resulted from their work, sometimes years later.

                    J, ignore my comments, I understand, they aren't what you want to hear. Others will soon tell you just what you do want to hear.
                    Last edited by JTMcC; 07-28-2013, 05:35 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hardrock40 View Post
                      .

                      There is no way a trailer manufacture would carry a vehicle on horizontal 1/8th wall tubing. But who knows.
                      There are lots of car haulers made from 2x3x1/8" and 2x4x1/8" tube. Those are the cheapy ones that made my dad end his trailer business because we weren't going to cheapen our design to compete with them...Bob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Looks like you could grind it out, weld it up and grind the welds down. Lay a piece of 3/16" 2X3" angle on each side and weld them up with short beads being careful to stagger from one side to the other to avoid to much heat being placed into the base metal. Don't want to weaken the tubing outside of the cracked area. This would help with the torsional effects it might see.
                        About the risks with welding this, i think you could have risks with almost everything you weld to a point but in this case a half dozen cars and the public being at risk from a failure could be a huge liability case. But the hand rail i fabricated/welded and installed on a 2 story deck could also be a case for the courts. The mud flap mount that i welded on a truck could come off and strike another vehicle or cause an accident hence another case for a liability suite. Im not sure you can be 100% safe but drawing the line as to what you do may help....Just saying.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JTMcC View Post
                          There's two major mistakes in that simple statement.

                          Don't assume a car hauler will ever see a proper repair. I've took a lot of pictures of the repairs on them over the years (including cars dropped down on top of other cars and trailer structural pieces jammed into cars) and never yet seen one that was done right. I'm sure they are out there but never laid eyes on it yet.

                          # two is the "5 times stronger". If you make a free standing "something" 5X stronger it was either very poorly designed in the first place, or you've just spent way to much customer money.
                          If it's not a free standing item, ie part of a system like a car hauler member is, then you've just built in (at least) two obvious points of failure.
                          Even a well welded repair of one point on a light structural member if, it's not designed, will ultimately result in multiple failures in the rest of the member or in it's connection points/adjacent members.

                          None of it matters if your welding on dirt equipment, but 80 mph down the freeway is dangerous territory for welding work.

                          If this annoys you you can put me on "ignore", I think, and not see my rambling posts. But every one of them comes from direct observation or personal experience.
                          I don't want to see anybody loose everything they've worked for over a property damage claim or worse yet a personal injury claim. But I have. And some of them deserved it based on the damage that resulted from their work, sometimes years later.

                          J, ignore my comments, I understand, they aren't what you want to hear. Others will soon tell you just what you do want to hear.
                          Ignore you? no way. I might not like every single word everybody types in here but I come here to read and ask. You would be the last I would want to ignore.

                          I've been welding since the mid 80's. Mostly the same old crap. I have not been out on jobs to gain experience on everything that comes up but I have learned a lot more in the last 4 years with my new will to make it.

                          When I said 5X's stronger, that was figure of speech so to say. If anybody repairs it with any decent method I just think it will be better than any other part of that whole tube. But like you say another failure point might be born.

                          It is gone never to return, one of you guys may see it as it runs from LA to Atlanta on a regular route, so I was told.

                          I think it was bob in a post after yours that said he has seen too many made from the same type of tubing. Good grief, I'm glad I didn't have anything to do with it.

                          I probably sound like I'll do anything for a buck, not really, I turned down a hitch to be put on the back of a fifth wheel to pull another trailer.

                          Then another make shift hitch after that one.

                          Now a jeep where the stabilizer and steering linkage both connect to the frame, cracked three times already. I will look at it because I know the guy and the Jeep is used off road but he drives to these mud bogs on the road.

                          Maybe weeks away but I'll take pics and see what non welding options you guys might come up with. I'm thinking a sturdy bracket bolted to the frame. Maybe a fish plate on the frame then bolt thru all or maybe nothing for me to deal with.

                          Anyway, I'll not ever look for the ignore setting on anybody.
                          You guys are a wealth of knowledge.
                          Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fireman View Post
                            Im not sure you can be 100% safe but drawing the line as to what you do may help....Just saying.
                            Makes me wonder if you could just take cash and act like our government " I know nothing about that"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
                              There are lots of car haulers made from 2x3x1/8" and 2x4x1/8" tube. Those are the cheapy ones that made my dad end his trailer business because we weren't going to cheapen our design to compete with them...Bob
                              Wish I hadn't seen that. Now I'll be driving like Batman trying to get away from them on the highway.

                              Comment

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