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Another Noob 240V Question or two --

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mneblett View Post
    ...I've installed a dedicated 50A circuit breaker in the garage sub-panel and a completely new/separate 6-50R wall socket...

    Mark
    Uh, Oh. Hope you haven't caught the disease. I started out with a 30A outlet in the garage just in case I got a decent compressor or whatever. Then got a MIG and decided to go with a separate 50A as well. Then there was this stick welder... and then a Syncrowave 250 that just begged to have it's own 70A breaker minimum... SIGH. Now I wonder if I can up the main breaker in the sub-panel from 100A to 120A. Then maybe I could do some arc-air gouging and burn the place down once and for all.

    Is there some over-the-counter medication for this?
    Miller stuff:
    Dialarc 250 (1974)
    Syncrowave 250 (1992)
    Spot welder (Dayton badged)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by USMCPOP View Post
      Is there some over-the-counter medication for this?
      If there is, I wouldn't take it.

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      • #18
        I've installed a dedicated 50A circuit breaker in the garage sub-panel and a completely new/separate 6-50R wall socket less than a foot away from the panel.
        Did you ever determine what size wire you have on that circuit? You stated that a licensed electrician installed it and that it was a 20 amp circuit which means most likely #12 wire.

        The reason that I ask is because using a 50 amp breaker and a 50 amp socket with #12 wire is both illegal and dangerous.

        Even if you know about it and limit what you plug in, a fault on the equipment could overload the circuit and cause a fire. Besides it is a violation of the NEC.

        If it is only a foot away from the panel, how hard can it be to upgrade the wire?
        Last edited by davido30093; 04-27-2013, 04:39 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by davido30093 View Post
          Did you ever determine what size wire you have on that circuit? You stated that a licensed electrician installed it and that it was a 20 amp circuit which means most likely #12 wire.
          Not an issue -- I left the compressor 240V circuit untouched. I instead installed a new wall box (deep box), and ran a separate 8/3 line to a new 50A breaker in the sub-panel.

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          • #20
            Thanks, I missed that part.

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            • #21
              The reason that I ask is because using a 50 amp breaker and a 50 amp socket with #12 wire is both illegal and dangerous.
              Not thats ita a good idea but it can be both legal and safe.

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              • #22
                Not thats ita a good idea but it can be both legal and safe.
                Wrong!

                If you are hinting at the oversized breaker and downsized wire due to the duty cycle of the welder, A 50 amp breaker and 50 amp receptacle on #12 wire both exceed the allowances in the NEC for the duty cycle on a welder.

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                • #23
                  You might be right and I might be wrong but show me where they wrote it?

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                  • #24
                    See NEC 630.11 (A) and (B) and 630.12 (A) and (B).

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                    • #25
                      Congrats on your 211. Get a couple of fire extinguishers, a 5 gallon bucket with water, and have a garden hose connected if needed. You can also get those harbor freight welding blankets too. Starting a fire when it is not intended is not good. Wife may get upset. Those sparks have a way of find places to hide. Good luck.

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                      • #26
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                        If I'm reading it correctly 12g wire can only be protected by a 40amp CB max.
                        Ed Conley
                        http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
                        MM252
                        MM211
                        Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
                        TA185
                        Miller 125c Plasma 120v
                        O/A set
                        SO 2020 Bender
                        You can call me Bacchus

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                        • #27
                          Its at 50 depending on the method and type. A Stickmate or Linc buzzer can be 12, single circuit in pipe. No one thinks ita a great idea. It has to do with the machine, a 211 can use cable with 12, ideal for 2 machines in this class with only 1 breaker.

                          This is why the 35 max brkr when used with 14 for the 211 type machines, use the minimum wire you have to reduce the ocpd, above that it can be up to 50A.

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                          • #28
                            If I'm reading it correctly 12g wire can only be protected by a 40amp CB max.
                            You are reading it correctly.

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                            • #29
                              When it comes down to it brother you should always have the greater rather than the lesser. If you dont you'll be poppin breakers left and right.

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                              • #30
                                When it comes down to it brother you should always have the greater rather than the lesser. If you dont you'll be poppin breakers left and right.
                                And, if the breaker is too big for the wire size, you will be starting fires left and right.

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