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Miller 211 keeps shutting off while welding. What's wrong?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by shadowiz View Post
    No disrespect intended by the way... it sounds like I may have offended you, that wasn't my intention. I merely meant that whether it is machine related or user error they are there for you with info right now, not days later, and who doesn't like that lol..oh and you won't be talkin to someone in INDIA china etc. you'll be speakin with red blooded American's. Try getting some help from DELL and being out of warranty or still under warranty, yer only choice is to deal with people from INDIA etc lol.. that are only able to search a knowledge base on the computer much like these forums and answer your questions with that, rather than actually knowing the product and exactly how it works all the way down to the circuitry ( huge difference in customer service ) and they actually expect you to pay yearly for poor DELL customer service like that. Sadly it seems the way of things these days. I hope WE soon wise up and stop such rediculous practices. Oh and by all means as I said its wise to put the word out there and make use of all forums that pertain to welding machines, doesn't hurt. Thats what they are here for and I'm glad they are provided as well at no charge!

    It's all good, not offended here. And I do appreciate your reply and you taking the time to reply. I just wanted to give the forums a chance first before having to take it in to an authorized service repair place and having to pay (plus time down) for a diagnose & repair that perhaps could have been solved for free on a forum. Unfortunately for me, none of the suggestions solved my situation, my machine still turns itself off, so I will be calling them and likely be taking it in somewhere for a repair. One thing I did notice today is a slight humm, a noise I hadn't noticed before. Perhaps it's shorting out somewhow? A short would explain the shutting off.

    Comment


    • #17
      Update #1

      OK, a little update on my welder. I took it to my local authorized Miller repair and they were unable to find anything wrong. They said they tested it and it works fine....

      Additionally, I double checked my outlet and the connections were nice and tight. No noticeable burn marks, etc. The outlet is actually newer than the welder, so I having my doubts that there is any fault with this, but I bought a new outlet tonight anyhow and will install it tomorrow morning. Maybe it's something I can't see? I don't have any other product to test by plugging it into my outlet, but the circuit is shared by my air compressor (not at the same time, of course. I turn off my compressor before welding) and the compressor runs fine. It has never had a hiccup.


      The only thing I can think to do now is the following:

      1- replace the outlet.
      2- Use the welder and see if it happens again. If it does I will video tape it for record, as the shop didn't get it to fail as it has for me.
      3- If/ when it fails again then I will need to take my welder to another 220v power source and try it. If it fails again, then it's proof positive that it is the welder. If it doesn't fail, then it's proof positive it's my wiring.

      Comment


      • #18
        What size wire is on the outlet that you are using? What size compressor are you using? It could be that the compressor is drawing a lot less current than the welder and so it works OK. If your welder is drawing more current than the wire size is rated for, or if it is a very long run from the breaker panel, there could be a voltage drop that the welder is sensing and causing it to shut down.

        Comment


        • #19
          just a good suggestion

          Originally posted by davido30093 View Post
          What size wire is on the outlet that you are using? What size compressor are you using? It could be that the compressor is drawing a lot less current than the welder and so it works OK. If your welder is drawing more current than the wire size is rated for, or if it is a very long run from the breaker panel, there could be a voltage drop that the welder is sensing and causing it to shut down.

          I would agree with David, and to verify what it is, you can either get someone that knows what they are doing.... check and verify your electrical work at your location as well as the wiring on your welder plug. to insure it is all up to par (to code for what you want it to do for you) I can definitely tell you depending on size of welder or air compressor, your welder is typically gonna be capable of pulling MUCH more power than a compressor that will just spike the amps on start up then level off to much less amps while running. Also understand that a residential air compressor is going to be very low tech/stupid Technically, they don't have circuit boards etc to sense anything, they simply have switches motor pump belt capacitors etc......extremely simple. a welding machine expecially things built of todays spec, when it comes to a welding machine is gonna be MUCH more complex and much more sensitive to someone doing a poor job wiring the location. Whereas, an air compressor is much more forgiving when it comes to someone providing less volts/amps and creating voltage drop, doesn't matter as much cause it has a short term spike of amp draw then lowers once it gets the motor running smooth. You should also understand that just because a breaker doesn't trip, doesn't mean you have done a electrical job properly, you can size things wrong and not trip a breaker but cause yourself a nice expensive fire at home shop, etc.. please look into that for your own piece of mind. I understand that you were trying to save money by running the machine on a outlet that was not only set up for your air compressor and not the demands of a welding machine,the machine was likely never in the picture at the time that you did this, and may have not even been safely installed for the demands of that air compressor, though It may be fine since you haven't triped a breaker or started a fire yet. Hey I'm human to and we all like to save money, some laws and codes and rules in life I would agree are nothing more than to cost you more money but there are also those that are in place to keep you from in dangering your self or equipment. So if your gonna be a do it yourselfer, at the very least USE the internet and ask people in the electrical business before attempting such things( or open your wallet and let the electrician do it, and be very clear about what you expecting to demand of this plug, show him the machine etc.. ). The Welder should be on a dedicated circuit that was installed and spec'd out for exactly that purpose. Don't get me wrong, I wish more people would do things them selves but at least do the research before doing so or be coached by a friend in that field of expertise. Please take what I said here to heart rather than take it as me disrespecting you, cause what I listed here is all true and real life stuff not someone trying to stir things up. I don't have to ask you how much you know in this field, its very obvious by your questions, so I answered them with truth and your safety in mind, and you know what doing things wrong and having to go back and buy wire etc to do the job right isnt' any cheaper than just payin a pro to do it right the first time. doing it right the first time can also be done by you just do your research before buying wiring, etc.. is all I'm sayin in that regard. Also, you do deserve credit for at least being honest here saying what you do and don't know, and askin for input, better to ask than go blindly into something that is this dangerous. Well, good luck with it, I'm sure by what you have said here it is like 98% that its nothing more than electrical work at your location that has caused this problem since we know that the techs checked it at the shop, though remember that was likely as I said nothing more than a bead or so in my opinion and returned to you with clean bill of health, unless you asked for or paid for further testing.

          Please understand that its likely the technician just ran a bead, things looked fine and and returned it to you for the diagnostic fee.. and it could possibly need testing that is more stressful to really know for sure....that is if you know 100% your electrical work at your location is NOT the problem and if the user isn't not the problem. if you wanted that kinda verification of welder performance for said period of time I would say pay for them to put your welder under a load test (load Bank) for say a hour at a setting that your particular machine is capable of with a 100% duty cycle, every model has a specified duty cycle rating- the techs will know all about this, so just mention it. I would say if your machine can perform for them under a load for a hour without problems then, I don't see any reason it should have any problems when you get it home other than user error or poor electrical work at your location. though I can see a tech welding a one inch bead and writing up a ticket to get their diagnosis fee. Since they will only do the bare minimum unless there is evidence or reason to do further testing. lol I know there was some repeating here but I don't feel like going back and messing with it so you get it raw.....enjoy

          Comment


          • #20
            just a reply

            Originally posted by Tuske427 View Post
            It's all good, not offended here. And I do appreciate your reply and you taking the time to reply. I just wanted to give the forums a chance first before having to take it in to an authorized service repair place and having to pay (plus time down) for a diagnose & repair that perhaps could have been solved for free on a forum. Unfortunately for me, none of the suggestions solved my situation, my machine still turns itself off, so I will be calling them and likely be taking it in somewhere for a repair. One thing I did notice today is a slight humm, a noise I hadn't noticed before. Perhaps it's shorting out somewhow? A short would explain the shutting off.
            I could be wrong but by this reply it seems like you didn't understand that long reply about miller support. You do understand that service centers are private companies that are just certified and supported by miller the manufacturer with information and parts, but by all means there is a huge separation between what you got outta my info and what I said.... you thought I was sending you to you service center first, nope that was of last resort... my suggestion was you call Miller the manufacturer and or parent company and talk to thier Customer Support staff and ask to speak with somone in your machines divsion, wire feed etc... this option was as free to you as the forums and and instant response by phone... this would have likely been weeded out by process of elimination over the phone without service center fee's and down time. they would have narrow'd down whats going on and led you to the answer. Guarantee once they heard you talk about a shared compressor outlet and you not knowing enough about electricity. I'm very certain you would have been led to the same conclusion without a cent spent for great information, there is no reason for them to lead you in the wrong direction after all if that was thier game plan, they would provide the service at all. Believe me not only do they know the equipment in their division, you would have also walked away from this problem with a better feeling about miller products and thier unbelievable humble approach to helping their customer base understand and diagnose before being forced to open your wallet and pay a service center for things that could have been solved over the phone once they heard you have a unknown electrical installation for 220v air compressor and you share it, but know nothing about the breaker size of wire length of run on the wire and the demands that the welder will require........that would have sent up a red flag for them to tell you to first get or consult with a qualified electrician to your location explain the power demands you need and go from there and let him visually inspect the electrical that has already been done for that air compressor outlet. A honest person in that field would have gone from the main breaker box all the way to the outlet, checked the demands of your machine and give you a good estimation on what is or isn't needed, if everything was correct and in good workin order then checking connections at breaker and outlet are not a bad option but very unlikely that is problem if everything else is right, unless you had aluminum wiring, which isn't likely but anything is possible at this point without further info.
            Guarantee they would have said check the electrical power provided then get back with them, once that checked out fine then you go on to other possible problems if that didn't fix it at that point. Nothing more than process of elimination, and they glad to assist you with it. now a service center I would say is very against free info and if you get any its likely from someone in sales that knows prolly 1% or less of what a tech or a customer service rep at miller would know, and they are there to make money so bringing you in for a diagnosis which WIll cost you is what they gonna push 99% of the time. Hey its a business, they are in business to make money just as any other. Miller too is a business but they have already made thier money on us when we bought their equipment so great phone support is just good business if you ask me, and yes they even support the Techs at the service centers, where do you think they got service manuals from....? so which one do you think knows more?? the service center or miller? and which one will bend over backwards over the phone and give you ACCURATE info on your product without your welding machine leaving your house and without asking you to open your wallet? I hope this makes more sense this time around

            Comment


            • #21
              Thank you guys, again, for the replies. Another brief update. This morning I changed the outlet, and did discover the one being replaced had something wrong with it. After removing it I could hear something rattling inside. Since replacing it the welder has yet to shut off. Let's hope it is as simple as that and stays that way. I plan to use it more tomorrow and hopefully Monday. I'll know more sure sure then.

              Since a lot of time has been taken to reply, info shared, and questions asked, I will do my best to answer them.

              1- I did call the Miller tech line before taking it into service. I was on the phone with them for all of a couple of minutes, and very little information was gained other than "the power switch is a circuit breaker (already learned from previously reading on this forum/ thread) and "I'm not sure what is wrong. Better take it in for service. Here's your local authorized rep...." The good news is there was no service charge as my welder is still covered under a 3 year warranty.

              2- My garage currently has 50 amp service. There are 2-30 amp fuses ganged up to create the 220v (single phase). This was installed to wire directly to my compressor (there is a 220v switch wired in to cut power off to the compressor so it's not always "on") with 14-2 copper wire. Also shared by the same 2-30 amp fuses is my dedicated welder outlet, which is about 3 feet from the breaker box (14-3). Neither the outlet nor the compressor share wires. Both the welder and the compressor are rated for a 30 amp draw. This is why I never run them at the same time. Yes, I should (and at some point will) have the house professionally upgraded to 100 amp service so each can have their own dedicated circuit. Until then I must rely on my near obsessive compulsive habits to not run them together to trip the circuit or overload the wires.

              3- The welding extension cord I built is made with 10-3 wire. It's I think 25' long. I only use this when I have to.

              4- No, I am not a certified electrician. I'm a toy designer of 16+ years in this industry, and an avid car nut.

              Comment


              • #22
                glad it was the users fault and not miller lol

                Originally posted by Tuske427 View Post
                Thank you guys, again, for the replies. Another brief update. This morning I changed the outlet, and did discover the one being replaced had something wrong with it. After removing it I could hear something rattling inside. Since replacing it the welder has yet to shut off. Let's hope it is as simple as that and stays that way. I plan to use it more tomorrow and hopefully Monday. I'll know more sure sure then.

                Since a lot of time has been taken to reply, info shared, and questions asked, I will do my best to answer them.

                1- I did call the Miller tech line before taking it into service. I was on the phone with them for all of a couple of minutes, and very little information was gained other than "the power switch is a circuit breaker (already learned from previously reading on this forum/ thread) and "I'm not sure what is wrong. Better take it in for service. Here's your local authorized rep...." The good news is there was no service charge as my welder is still covered under a 3 year warranty.

                2- My garage currently has 50 amp service. There are 2-30 amp fuses ganged up to create the 220v (single phase). This was installed to wire directly to my compressor (there is a 220v switch wired in to cut power off to the compressor so it's not always "on") with 14-2 copper wire. Also shared by the same 2-30 amp fuses is my dedicated welder outlet, which is about 3 feet from the breaker box (14-3). Neither the outlet nor the compressor share wires. Both the welder and the compressor are rated for a 30 amp draw. This is why I never run them at the same time. Yes, I should (and at some point will) have the house professionally upgraded to 100 amp service so each can have their own dedicated circuit. Until then I must rely on my near obsessive compulsive habits to not run them together to trip the circuit or overload the wires.

                3- The welding extension cord I built is made with 10-3 wire. It's I think 25' long. I only use this when I have to.

                4- No, I am not a certified electrician. I'm a toy designer of 16+ years in this industry, and an avid car nut.
                K, regarding the miller service rep not workin out for ya I've run into the same thing lol, one time you get a new not so season'd guy and next time you may get the guy that was there before that machine was even thought up. been there done that no harm done at least you tried that avenue before dealing with down time and transporting yer machine to a shop. Oh I hope the 14-3 you stated for the fake dedicated outlet (meaning that circuit is being shared with your compressor, though compressor is not in use while welder is in use) to your 30 amp draw machine is a typo cause min 30 amp wiring would be a #10-3 I don't care how short it is... the #10 extention was fine for that amount of feet just hope the other is a typo .. hey we all do it. No biggie not being a certified electrician for this small job just do yer home work before messin with it and you won't have any probs dedicating it all by yer self. always nice when its something simple and no more cost than a outlet and some of yer time WE SHOULD ALL BE so FORTUNATE!now as for that outlet going bad so soon you may want to look into getting something of a diff brand or something cause ya just don't see outlets that don't get unplugged often and that were installed with good tight connection go out everyday and if you really wanna end it, use that 25' extention and hard wire to the junction box and no outlet needed though you lose portability if you wanna unplug and take it somewhere.

                Comment


                • #23
                  with 14-2 copper wire
                  1. 14-2 copper wire is only rated for 15 amps and is NOT appropriate for the compressor or the welder.

                  2. The 10-3 extension cord is fine and is NOT the problem.

                  3. The two 30 amp fuses across a 240V line only gives you 30 amps, NOT 60.
                  Double fuses/breakers in the panel doubles the voltage from 120 to 240, it DOES NOT double the amperage. The value of the fuse is the amperage, whether you have one fuse or two.

                  4. You should NOT run ANYTHING on 14 gage wire with 30 amp fuses. You could start a fire and burn your house down. This is also a violation of the electrical code. If you want a 30 amp circuit, you MUST use #10 wire (or heavier).

                  5. Please have an electrician or a knowledgeable person run a properly wired circuit for you.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    yeesh, guess there is some re-wiring to do tomorrow. OK, ten gauge it is.

                    And the welder stayed on today, so I am also concluding it is the user error (mine/ my outlet) and not the product.

                    Thank you

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      update- good news

                      It turns out I misspoke- I have had 10 gauge wire in my garage the whole time. I know this now because:

                      1- I purchased a roll of 10-2 wire this morning (and a 30 amp 2 pole switch) and when I bought it home I compared it to the wire I already have- it's the same thing. Same color, same brand, everything. (It was purchased at the same store)

                      2- I also cut a tip off at the end and compared wire thicknesses. Same...

                      3- I also got a wire gauge out- they both read as 10 gauge.

                      A bit of history on this- the compressor was wired in first and set up with the ganged 30 amp fuse. My neighbor helped me with this (who is more up on AC electrical)

                      So I think I'm good. Thanks again everyone for all of your help!

                      Until my next issue...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Sounds like you are fine to me. You have fuses, not breakers in your garage panel? Just curious.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
                          Sounds like you are fine to me. You have fuses, not breakers in your garage panel? Just curious.
                          I have the ones that flip like a switch. (not glass screw in fuses)

                          The previous owner of this house had upgraded the house, and presumably the wiring as my garage has it's own 50 amp box.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Miller 211 stop working

                            My 2 year old Miller 211 welder stops working/welding ??? I cleaned the plugs. Plugged into good wire #10 wire. Worked GREAT for 2yrs, but now it stops about 1 to 2 inchs out of the gun as I'm welding. Them pull the trigger and it starts welding, the machine stays running, it stops feeding the wire out. If it is the drive wheel ok I'll get it fixed. It does the same thing when I have the the spool gun on it. I have done a lot of welding with this little welder, I like it and would like it working ASAP.Any one had out there have the same problem?????

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