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  • gsims
    started a topic Whats with power switches on the rear?

    Whats with power switches on the rear?

    Is their some logic in the on/off power switch being on the rear of both my Miller 211 and the Hyperthern? Its a bit of a pain fumbeling along the back edge feeling for the switch. No big deal breaker but curious if anyone knows the logic to the rear?

  • Steve83
    replied
    Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
    Yes, like I would want a machine with a loose piece of metal working around in it.
    You mean like a spool of bare highly-conductive wire? Or like a removeable drive roll? Or any of the OTHER metal parts inside your machines? They're NOT "loose", and neither would the pushrod be. Nor does it have to be made of bare metal; or even ANY metal. The switch itself is plastic - why do you assume a pushrod can't be made from the same material as the switch? Or are you just being obtuse?
    Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
    What happens when the pin or linkage wears out?????
    What happens when Martians invade? What happens when gravity reverses? What happens when penguins rule the world? It's a POWER SWITCH. How much wear do you think it's gonna get? Do you think it's significantly more than the power switch on your machine gets? What will you do when that one wears out & explodes its spring-loaded bare metal components across the inside of the machine?
    Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
    The pushrod drops onto live electrical components????
    Yeah - that makes perfect sense. You think Miller engineers are THAT dumb, right? Just because YOU can't imagine a pushrod that's safe, durable, effective, & inexpensive doesn't mean THEY can't.

    I guess I just have a lot more faith in Miller's engineers' capabilities than you do. But I also think there ARE things that could be improved for nearly no extra cost.

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  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Yep, thought this would have died right after miller Kevin chimed in since he thoroughly answered the op's question. Nothing wrong with hashing out some things though, maybe miller will have a slight push now to put switches up front. Completely agree with you though Jsfab, I love my millers based on their value to me. I don't need it custom built for my every wish.
    Last edited by Cgotto6; 03-12-2013, 05:02 PM.

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  • monte55
    replied
    I also think thread has taken its toll. For the ones that want the power switch in front ...........what if the mfg had the power cord next to it coming out the front. You would still complain. LET IT GO

    Leave a comment:


  • JSFAB
    replied
    This whole thread is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. I've been in business for over 25 years, I can assure you the least important thing in making decisions on what to buy (and I've bought many), is where the power switch is located.

    For those of you who complain not enough room, read your owner's manual, most state leave enough clearance for air-flow, generally more than enough room to reach a power switch.

    For those of you who absolutely need to place machines in restricted locations, well just pony up the money, install a dedicated line, put the fuse-box or circuit breaker on the wall, in a convenient location, use that as a shut-off. If you have a special situation, you should deal with it yourself, rather than demand a manufacturer cater to your every whim, so we ALL have to pay for your desires.

    I, for one, am happy with everything Miller, Hobart, Thermal, Lincoln, etc. has ever produced, where-ever each has decided to put the power switch.

    Leave a comment:


  • JSFAB
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve83 View Post
    Here's another cheap effective solution: the electrical switch can be at the back safely certified INSIDE the case, and a safe certifiable inexpensive pushrod mechanism can link it to a front-panel button/knob. Home stereo amps have been built that way for decades.
    Yes, like I would want a machine with a loose piece of metal working around in it. What happens when the pin or linkage wears out????? The pushrod drops onto live electrical components????

    Leave a comment:


  • jimcolt
    replied
    While I work for Hypertherm (36 years) I have a well equipped home shop (yes, Millermatic250) with 2 cnc plasma machines and 2 hand held plasma's as well. All of the plasma's have the switch on the rear panel.....and when they were new I always thought it would be better if the switch was on the front panel. Now it is second nature to reach around the rear to fire them up.

    Miller and Hyperthem both work hard to be able to build machines that conform perfectly to the various worldwide safety specs. Some of the specs are 180 degrees apart....so different models often have to be built for different regional specs. While costs savings are always important...safety is of the highest importance.

    There were a few comments questions:

    -Using a pushrod or linkage of some sort to move the switch to the front panel certainly would be possible....although would add cost and complexity.

    -The length of the inside exposed power cable, which can have up to 600 volts, 3 phase power present, is of concern to the CE and CSA inspectors. Yes....even inside the power supply cabinet. I suspect (but don't know for sure) that their reasoning is the on/off switch needs to disconnect all power in the cabinet....a cable running from its strain relief on the rear to a front mounted switch would still be powered (maybe 18" to 24" long in some machines)...and could pose a safety issue. We can all argue that point....however the argument seems useless unless it changes the specs imposed on us by the CSA and CE regulators! If we ran the inlet power cord in the front of the machines...then the switch could also be in the front....in my mind that would be a pretty strange design!

    Jim Colt

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  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve83 View Post
    Here's another cheap effective solution: the electrical switch can be at the back safely certified INSIDE the case, and a safe certifiable inexpensive pushrod mechanism can link it to a front-panel button/knob. Home stereo amps have been built that way for decades.
    Your right Steve, they could do that. But they don't...and I'm sure it is because a mix of all the reasons listed in this thread. Mostly I'm sure the bean counters would not authorize that costly of a modification (only a few bucks), auto manufactures have engineers quibble over fasteners which cost cents, and that is for a 20k+ vehicle. Surely $1-3 of parts on a $900 welder is out of the question, especially if it is not necessary.

    Also, I would be more frustrated if that front switch failed because some janky remote rod system had been implemented, instead of just putting a regular switch located somewhere else on the machine.

    I don't necessarily like the rear switch or anything, but I understand the world we have created. Safety concerns and cost of manufacturing are often the two predominant traits when developing a product.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve83
    replied
    Here's another cheap effective solution: the electrical switch can be at the back safely certified INSIDE the case, and a safe certifiable inexpensive pushrod mechanism can link it to a front-panel button/knob. Home stereo amps have been built that way for decades.

    Leave a comment:


  • elvis
    replied
    Whoops, I went back and saw that post now. Ok, sweet! Also a good explanation. My ADD kicked in and I skipped it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cgotto6
    replied
    No, miller Kevin.

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  • elvis
    replied
    Originally posted by Cgotto6 View Post
    Guess I don't quite understand where any confusion is, a miller rep just cleared the issue why some units have the switch poisoned at the rear of the machine.
    If you are referring to Jim Colt he works for Hypertherm... Not miller. Just to clear up any confusion! Cope was referring to it, but I think most people missed it.

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  • Cgotto6
    replied
    Guess I don't quite understand where any confusion is, a miller rep just cleared the issue why some units have the switch poisoned at the rear of the machine.

    Leave a comment:


  • snowbird
    replied
    Who the h**l woke-up those certification guys at ul and csa who slept all these years letting manufacturer put the switch where it belongs?

    Now i'm scared of my machines with front panel switches hope my laptop is not on their list

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve83
    replied
    Originally posted by Miller Kevin View Post
    In some cases the reason could be a simple lack of space on the front panel to properly locate a power switch. Another possibility is that routing the leads through the unit could cause problems with weld performance because of noise on the lines in particular on inverter based units. In other cases the size of the machine itself may not allow for proper clearances for the primary leads to be routed through the length of the unit and still pass a 3rd party certification such as NRTL/C, CSA or UL. These types of certifications are very important for this equipment, without them we would not be allowed to sell in some markets.
    OK But none of those applies to the 211. Did you look at the pics I posted?
    Originally posted by Miller Kevin View Post
    As for relocating the switch on the Millermatic 211 to the front panel I would not recommend it as it could be a potential safety issue and would also jeopardize your machine warranty.
    Drinking lemonade near the welder is a potential safety issue. Using an auto-darkening lens instead of a true shade is a potential safety issue. Welding is a potential safety issue.

    The point is: if Miller built the machine with the switch on the front, it would be as safe as anything else about the machine. So the safest thing for Miller customers is for Miller to revise that design so we don't have to do it ourselves. If it takes a relay in the back & a low-current switch on the front, DO that. Personally, I don't think that's necessary on the 211. I think longer factory wires would pass any standard of safety & performance. What are we talking about - another $1-30 worth of parts on a $1000 machine?
    Originally posted by jimcolt View Post
    The switch has to be closw to the power cord entrance so long lengths of input AC power are not exposed inside the unit.
    I don't doubt for a moment that you know what you're talking about, and that there's some regulation mandating your switch location. But you worded that wrong... "Exposed inside" doesn't make sense. Wires inside a machine case are less-exposed than those outside, so if a long power wire is an issue, the external cord would be the larger problem.
    Last edited by Steve83; 03-12-2013, 12:38 AM.

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