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Filling a weld

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  • Filling a weld

    I recently welded up a handle for my first welding cart. It consistes of a tube welded between two short lengths of angle that will be welded to one side of the cart. The welds are out of sight on the underside of the assembly. I am confident that the welds will be sufficient to handle any loads they will encounter.

    I did not weld entirely around the edge of the tube though, because the tube diameter is the same as the angle web dimension (I think it is 1 1/2 inches). Some of the welds would stick out and be difficult to grind smooth and I might grind away some of the angle itself making it look bad. There are still gaps between the end of the tube and angle web.

    Should I fill the gap with a weld or should I fill it with something like Bondo? I will be painting it anyway. I would need to use a rotary burr to get into the tight spaces to grind the welds smooth.

  • #2
    Are you saying you welded three sides of your 1 1/2" sq tube handle to the 1 1/2" angle iron brackets coming off the carts frame .

    Frank, a picture would be of great help.

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    • #3
      Two six inch long angles welded horizontally off the side of the cart with a round tube between them. Angle is positioned with one flat on top of the tube and one flat vertical on the outside of the tube. Round tube is positioned at the end of the angle. Welds between the tube and angle are hidden underneath. But gaps remain.

      Really, the question gets down to this: Do you have to fill every gap with welded filler and grind them smooth, or should you weld what is necessary for strength and fill other gaps with a body filler?

      I am at work now so pictures are not possible.

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      • #4
        Weld it. Put it in nice and smooth and you won't have to grind it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Frank R View Post

          Really, the question gets down to this: Do you have to fill every gap with welded filler and grind them smooth, or should you weld what is necessary for strength and fill other gaps with a body filler?

          I am at work now so pictures are not possible.
          The answer is... it all depends!

          If your welds are good then it should be strong enough. Now, how do you want the finished product to look? If you don't want gaps, then weld them up and grind them smooth. You can also leave your welds visible to show off the stack o dimes. Since you designed this handle maybe it has a design flaw where you cannot fill/grind without taking away metal that you want. In that case perhaps a small design change can fix that. I only grind welds like this when it is absolutely necessary.

          I only weld where I need to for structural stuff. If I want something to look complete I will also put a bead in that area. When I made a large cart recently I added a little bit of extra weld because it made everything look nice. I didn't need to do it for strength as my materials limited me in that aspect.

          I look forward to some picture when you get home from work. I'm sure it will help with describing your question.
          Last edited by elvis; 02-27-2013, 10:35 AM. Reason: added stuff

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          • #6
            Frank,
            I might have turned the angles out rather than in if it was feasible. Mostly because I like the look of that better and I think it is less likely to pinch your hand. I would weld it up as an assembly first, do my grinding and then weld it in place. As for welding every millimeter of space? IMHO, not necessary as long as the welds are sufficient for the job at hand. Lots of assemblies are not fully welded and some are stronger that way rather than completely welded. Fill the spaces with whatever works for you as it should be only cosmetic anyway.
            Meltedmetal

            Radius and/or bevel and deburr both legs of the angle at the handle end cause you know it will put your wife in a bad mood for half a day if she has to sew another tear in your jeans and wash your blood out of them AGAIN.
            Last edited by Meltedmetal; 02-27-2013, 11:20 AM. Reason: additional

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post
              Frank,
              I might have turned the angles out rather than in if it was feasible. Mostly because I like the look of that better and I think it is less likely to pinch your hand. I would weld it up as an assembly first, do my grinding and then weld it in place. As for welding every millimeter of space? IMHO, not necessary as long as the welds are sufficient for the job at hand. Lots of assemblies are not fully welded and some are stronger that way rather than completely welded. Fill the spaces with whatever works for you as it should be only cosmetic anyway.
              Meltedmetal

              Radius and/or bevel and deburr both legs of the angle at the handle end cause you know it will put your wife in a bad mood for half a day if she has to sew another tear in your jeans and wash your blood out of them AGAIN.
              I was thinking pretty much the same thing on all points. But I positioned the angle with one flat on the top so that my newby welds will be hidden underneath. They are strong enough, just not pretty. I have already beveled the sharp edges.

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              • #8
                Frank,
                You can disguise a whole bag full of less than pretty welds with the grinder (if you can reach them) and that Bondo if you're talented with that. With the angles turned in I'd run a bead across the top side of the pipe/angle junction anyway. Right where you'd see it. So I wouldn't win that way either. I'm sure it will be fine either way as long as the tube is long enough that it doesn't crowd your fingers when you grab hold of it. Have fun with it.
                Meltedmetal

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post
                  Frank,
                  You can disguise a whole bag full of less than pretty welds with the grinder (if you can reach them) and that Bondo if you're talented with that. With the angles turned in I'd run a bead across the top side of the pipe/angle junction anyway. Right where you'd see it. So I wouldn't win that way either. I'm sure it will be fine either way as long as the tube is long enough that it doesn't crowd your fingers when you grab hold of it. Have fun with it.
                  Meltedmetal
                  Here is the right side of the handle. The welds are on the back side, out of view.

                  If I weld around the pipe perimeter I will have to do a lot of grinding that may affect the shape of the angle and would only add work and be less attractive. I would find it very difficult to access the inner areas.
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                  Attached Files

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                  • #10
                    sorry i dont have much knowledge on what u are asking ,it would be of great value to me if you can tell me the machines that i should have.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Frank R View Post
                      Here is the right side of the handle. The welds are on the back side, out of view.

                      If I weld around the pipe perimeter I will have to do a lot of grinding that may affect the shape of the angle and would only add work and be less attractive. I would find it very difficult to access the inner areas.
                      Name:  6fedbe940e56f1328d6d1e3f147e6826.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  46.0 KB
                      Frank
                      My preferred version of that would still be to put the tube on the other side of the angle where I could easily reach it to grind(could be that I have tools you don't?). To weld it as it is in your photo I would knock the corner off the pipe with the grinder so it would fit tight to the angle and run a bead on about 1/3rd of the perimeter on the bottom and whatever I could manage across the top on the other leg of the angle. I don't know exactly how much you are going to pull around with this but unless you turn green and really bulk up when you get angry(turn into the Hulk) you won't be able to pull those two welds off. The welds should then be easy to reach for grinding and if your fit is good the paint will cover the seam on the rest, if not bondo it. Or you could cut the upper leg of the angle back to the center off the tube and weld it there and radius the other leg of the angle to match the tube radius and weld. Also easy to finish I think.
                      Meltedmetal

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                      • #12
                        The tube was the original handle from a work cart and it was held on by bent sheet metal brakets; I am just relocating it on my welding cart. I removed the old brackets and ground away the old welds; I am not doing that again. And I do not have any more tube.

                        I am happy with the welds on the sides you cannot see in the picture, they are plenty strong.

                        The lesson I learned here is that the inside face of the angle web is not parallel to the outside face. If I cut the end of the tube at a slight angle than the gap would not be so large. I would'nt mind welding the gap closed, it is just the grinding in the tight confines I am trying to avoid.

                        Do welders use rotary carbide burrs for this kind of thing?

                        Looks like a little filler work this weekend.

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                        • #13
                          Do welders use rotary carbide burrs for this kind of thing?[/QUOTE]

                          I do, but only when I can't get it with a 9" angle grinder cause they are slow by comparison. Effective but slow.
                          Meltedmetal

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