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Where are all the talented welders!!!???

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  • #31
    Where are all the talented welders!!!???

    First off I am a 24 year old journeyman welder /boilermaker a lot of the problem is a lot of the people trying to get in the industry go to some welding school where the teachers are 9 times out of 10 not good at the trade themselves and the schools don't care if they learn they just want the 10-20 grand per student and will teach you how to pass a test. And another problem is every shop I worked at when I was trying to learn the trade just wanted some guy welding the same part or job all day for 13-20 an hour which is in no way enough to live on when the company is almost always charging labour out at we'll above that. If your a business owner find someone who is willing to learn give him a FAIR wage and help him learn and once he is a competent tradesman it's up to you and your wallet to keep him after all the company gets fat off the backs of its workers.

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    • #32
      I see guys everyday that still owe 13 grand on their school and are now pushing a trigger burnin wire for 11-12 bucks an hour 50 hours a week. Sure not the job i would have thought it was is what they are sayin...Bob
      Bob Wright

      Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
      http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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      • #33
        Nathan128 is so right, kids come out of a welding program thinking that they are workplace ready instead of entry level ready.
        There are some pretty good instructors in welding schools but the majority couldn't actually make it in the real working world. They are school instructors for a reason. And they seem to spend a significant part of their day trying to convince young, impressionable students that they are God's gift to the welding world, capable of making any weld ever required in any situation world wide, the "best there ever was".
        These kids call me pretty often looking for work. They either tell me how badass they are, or they tell me how badass their instructors were. I write them off immediatly.
        That just handicaps the student, and slows his entry into real world jobs.
        The old timer, with many years real experience in the field is worth many, many more dollars to me as a business owner than a truckload of recent graduates who've been brainwashed to think they are IT.
        I've worked with thousands of welders over the years and the best I've ever seen have never been to a formal welding school, but learned on the job from grizzled old dudes.
        Internal drive and commitment are the traits that make slick welders in any of the wide variety of welding fields. That "can" happen in a formal welding school environment, but frequently doesn't.
        The average welding instructor is more of a hindrence to a young would be welder than a help.
        Sad but (in my experience) true.
        At least the community college programs don't soak the student for a ton of money, the high dollar private schools border on immoral, greed fueled scams.

        JT
        Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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        • #34
          You ask where are all the talented welders?

          I'm right here. When the company I worked for folded up I just went out on my own because no one would pay a fair wage. Most places wanted to pay 10-12 for a trigger holder or they wanted a complete welder fabricator who knows all processes for 18-20 an hour. I always remember one add read must be able to fabricate from blueprints, operate all shop equipment, tig weld alum & stainless, etc, etc, for $17 an hour. I live in NJ which has a high cost of living so $17 is nothing.

          It seems to be the same in a lot of trades. The owners are trying to keep costs down so raises are mostly non-existant & starting pay is down from where it was. Unfortunately businesses are low balling to get jobs & corners have to be cut to stay competitive. Foreign workers are taking jobs at low wages also which keeps wages down. It's a cycle the keeps spiraling downward. Everyone buys on price instead of quality anymore.
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Nathan128 View Post
            First off I am a 24 year old journeyman welder /boilermaker a lot of the problem is a lot of the people trying to get in the industry go to some welding school where the teachers are 9 times out of 10 not good at the trade themselves and the schools don't care if they learn they just want the 10-20 grand per student and will teach you how to pass a test. And another problem is every shop I worked at when I was trying to learn the trade just wanted some guy welding the same part or job all day for 13-20 an hour which is in no way enough to live on when the company is almost always charging labour out at we'll above that. If your a business owner find someone who is willing to learn give him a FAIR wage and help him learn and once he is a competent tradesman it's up to you and your wallet to keep him after all the company gets fat off the backs of its workers.
            Originally posted by MMW View Post
            You ask where are all the talented welders?

            I'm right here. When the company I worked for folded up I just went out on my own because no one would pay a fair wage. Most places wanted to pay 10-12 for a trigger holder or they wanted a complete welder fabricator who knows all processes for 18-20 an hour. I always remember one add read must be able to fabricate from blueprints, operate all shop equipment, tig weld alum & stainless, etc, etc, for $17 an hour. I live in NJ which has a high cost of living so $17 is nothing.

            It seems to be the same in a lot of trades. The owners are trying to keep costs down so raises are mostly non-existant & starting pay is down from where it was. Unfortunately businesses are low balling to get jobs & corners have to be cut to stay competitive. Foreign workers are taking jobs at low wages also which keeps wages down. It's a cycle the keeps spiraling downward. Everyone buys on price instead of quality anymore.

            ALL true IMO. But it is all a matter of perspective. I sucks when you are paying someone a "fair wage" and after you figure your books and realize that even at $100 dollars an hr, your fair wage is more than you make yourself when all is said and done. Not always, but many times. It is tough to keep jobs rolling in steady and it's pretty hard to write checks for sweeping the floor. I've done it.
            And I had to make tough decisions on paying the talented but limited fabricator less money than the super talented fabricator but limited welder. It sucked. Bad vibes from the young guy ran off the old guy, and then the young guy figured how much pay the other guy got and blew up and quit.
            After I let the dust settle and all for a year, I realized My son and I make pretty close to as much by ourselves. Hard to swallow.
            When I read these kind of posts I remember all the attitudes. It isn't easy being a welder/employer and it is a hard find getting a guy who can truely make you money at the small job shop level.
            I can bid jobs and make money based on my talents. Bidding jobs based on others talents and life changing variables takes much more talent than my welding skills.
            Actual arc time is a small part of working at my job. Lots of disassembly, prep, fab, moving things etc.
            I could really use a boss more than a helper IMO. Then I could simply work.

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            • #36
              Great responses and insights guys and gals. its almost 2 weeks after my original post and still cant find a decent hire. Thankfully we are slowing down heading into the Christmas season. In response to some of the posts discussing rates, my guys are treated very well. I live in Toronto, Ontario. Cost of living in these parts is comparable to NYC minus about 10%. My good welders make $35-45 an hour. Note i said welder not "rod burner" there is a difference. of my 5 main guys 3 started as young punks under the age of 20 and we've made welders out of them. This applies to all aspects of life these days i think. The young kids dont want to labour. With the winter slow down approcahing i think the best bet is going to be time to "breed" another teen boy/girl into a welder. Keep the thoughts coming and enjoy the Christmas season with friends and family. Welding isnt everything in life.

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              • #37
                I believe the term is "groom"
                "breed" could be more fun possibly

                www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                Miller WC-115-A
                Miller Spectrum 300
                Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

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                • #38
                  "Groom" is the correct term. The Ministry of labour wouldnt be to happy if im breeding workers. Possible human rights issue.

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                  • #39
                    Where are all the talented welders!!!???

                    I would think in some cases it might be quicker to breed good workers than groom what's out there. lol

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                    • #40
                      agree, but......

                      Originally posted by diamondfab View Post
                      Working in the cold puts hair on your chest and in some cases on your back. My employees are pretty spoiled. The best of the best equipment and warm winter gear coming out the ying yang. I think some blame has to go to college welding programs and private trade schools. People get their tickets and think they're full rate welders. To me a cert from a school is your license to learn.
                      I totally agree that the graduation certi is just the ticket to start really learning the trade from more experienced welders. BUT when no one will hire you because you don't have enough experience, how are you supposed to get the experience??

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                      • #41
                        a cert from a school is a license to learn

                        I agree with this...I'm n a welding school n Mississippi and I graduate in may.I can see now that it's so much to learn about welding that you can't really learn in a school based shop.It would take years to learn almost everything.Its to much to learn just enough.I will try my best on my first job to learn everything I can so I become a better welder day by day .

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                        • #42
                          I'm also in school for welding right now and i have encountered many problems that can lead to the type of stuff you're talking about. Kids come into these programs because they think welding is easy money and they won't have to work hard or anything. Just so you guys know there are some kids out there reading books and doing thier best to learn the trade and be successful, they are sometimes few and far between but they are there.

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                          • #43
                            For the young guys and gals in welding or any other trade school i applaud you. Welding school is like any other school, be there because you want to be there and learn everything possible. When its time to go out into the workplace keep learning. Learn for your entire career. When people ask me if welding is a good job i respond by saying "welding is a very difficult profession, mentally and physically but its a fantastic living if you stick with it".

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                            • #44
                              What I see in my area is employer's not giving employee's a reason to work hard.

                              example:

                              An older hard working talented employee gets fired because he can be replaced with two young bloods for less money. Why work hard when you get fired for it...

                              Or:

                              An employee starts out at $8/hr to learn a valuable trade and gets promised a "livable" wage. Said employee learns all he can, gets a few years of experience, get's really good at what he's doing etc. and gets a $2/hr raise... While the guy next to him, who does/knows the bare minimum gets the same pay rate... $10/hr is not "livable" around here, and why work harder then the next person for the same wage?

                              Even better, an employer says no christmas bonus, we cant afford it this year, then continues to complain about not being able to decide where he's buying his 3rd vacation house...

                              I'm not saying that the O.P. is like that, just seems like what I've dealt with alot around here.. You wont make everybody happy, but if you do what you can to promote a good workplace, it will go a long way in peoples work ethics.

                              I currently work for a small town garage, and while non of us are getting rich, they do what they can to treat me as if it was my company as much as there's and I work as hard as I know how for them, works for now, but I hope to be able to provide for my family better some day, and maybe all three of us can if the economy turns around.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by rednecklimo85 View Post
                                I currently work for a small town garage, and while non of us are getting rich, they do what they can to treat me as if it was my company as much as there's and I work as hard as I know how for them, works for now, but I hope to be able to provide for my family better some day, and maybe all three of us can if the economy turns around.


                                It sounds like a good deal for now.

                                The compensation in welding world varies greatly because the pool of welders able to do the work varies greatly.

                                Nobody is going to make large money mig welding trailers together in a factory because the labor pool is saturated with qualified candidates.
                                It's simple economics, the fewer people able to do the work, the more the worker is worth.

                                The key to increased welding income is to work in a field or sub field where the number of humans able or willing to do that particular work is small. And that usually takes an out of the ordinary level of commitment/dedication/practice. Otherwise, everbody'd be doin it for big $.

                                Good luck to you.

                                Deck-A-Halls'
                                John
                                Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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