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Problem with my MM 211 on 230V mode

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  • Problem with my MM 211 on 230V mode

    Hey bought a miller 211 with MVP a few weeks ago, needed a good hobby welder to work on a VW dune buggy i'm building. So far I have only used the welder on 110v and it has done nothing but exceed my expectations. Finally got around to dropping a 220/230 outlet in the garage (NEMA 6-50) plugged it in.... flipped the switch... nothing...... now I have a maintenance degree, and I have wired up a hand full of 220 outlets... it's not exactly rocket science. Decided to check the voltages coming out of the box.... can't find my **** voltmeter, think i left it at the shop in town... but found my volt snooper, well better than nothing I guess.

    Power to the outlet on both sides, connections check out at the breakers, neutral hooked up properly.....Well (*&#%^!!!!.......

    Now I had the Welder Gun/Lead laying on my workbench, and I just happened to lay my Volt Snooper on the lead, AND THE FREAKIN' THING STARTS BEEPING AT ME!!!!! ... Well **** this has got my curiosity up.... So i Plug the 110v mvp plug back on, and plug it in, turn on the welder.. Welder turns on, put the volt snooper to the gun lead..... nothing...... So I put the 220 Mvp plug back on, flip it in the on position, doesn't turn on... but the Volt Snooper senses Voltage at the gun lead again????

    This has me absolutely Perplexed to a magnitude that I cannot explain without using words most likely frowned upon by the forum administrator.... I'm having my neighbor (the electrician) come over tomorrow and check out the power coming into the box just to make sure nothing is wrong on that side of things, but other than something like that the only thing I can think of is my new welder has a faulty circuit board in it.

    Please Help.

  • #2
    Search mm211

    Seems to be an issue with the mm211

    Comment


    • #3
      There is NO neutral on 220!!

      Best get a voltmeter, cause you've hooked up the 220 leads WRONG. Maybe you should get a rocket scientist in there to do it for you.

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      • #4
        On a 3 wire set up on 220/230 or whatever floats your boat, there is L1, L2, and Neutral. Technically there is no ground.... Turns out I had it all wired right, got the voltmeter back home and I was only getting proper voltage from L1 to Neutral and L2 to Neutral, but not in between L1 and L2. Turns out the breaker was a dud straight out of the box.. ODE TO THE CHEAP CHINESE JUNK THEY SELL US NOW-A-DAYS!!! Swapped out the breaker, worked like a charm, love this little welder.

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        • #5
          But I might be wrong about that, some people refer to the neutral bar in the box as a grounding bar and vise versa, after all on the 110 circuits all of the bare ground wires and the white neutral wires all go to the same block/bar... so **** lets say were both correct and drink a beer in celebration! YAY

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          • #6
            There is a ground, AND there is a neutral. Youll find in the breaker box that the grounds and neutrals are separated in the same box.

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            • #7
              You should get your money back on that thar maintenance degree

              Neutral and ground are two entirely different things-

              And they should not terminate on the same bar/block

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              • #8
                Problem with my MM 211 on 230V mode

                There's 2 things I see wrong here and by all means someone correct me if I'm wrong. 1 is doubt it was a breaker problem if you had 120 volts on both L1 and L2 to ground and 0 between the 2 legs. It just means you didn't bridge the 2 buss bars in the panel with the breaker. And 2nd although you are right that in the main panel neutrals and grounds essentially terminate to the same destination, in a sub panel the bridge between the 2 is supposed to be removed and 2 seperate circuits ran to avoid possible electrocution.
                Last edited by Manisoba; 11-27-2012, 09:12 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AdamSievers View Post
                  But I might be wrong about that, some people refer to the neutral bar in the box as a grounding bar and vise versa, after all on the 110 circuits all of the bare ground wires and the white neutral wires all go to the same block/bar... so **** lets say were both correct and drink a beer in celebration! YAY
                  There are three four lines to get 240V into the home ...

                  L1
                  L2
                  Neutral
                  Ground

                  If you look at an older DRYER it will have a THREE PIN plug.

                  If you look at a newer DRYER it will have the new FOUR PIN Plug.

                  I believe my utility company actually ties the neutral to ground at the pole.

                  There is a reason for a separate line for Neutral .... it has to do with carrying current. You will notice that the wires for L1/L2/Neutral are all the same gauge and insulated, but that Ground Wire is smaller and not insulated.

                  Here are the plugs .....




                  Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
                  You should get your money back on that thar maintenance degree

                  Neutral and ground are two entirely different things-

                  And they should not terminate on the same bar/block
                  With all the confusion over this topic I put the question to a licensed Electrician ....

                  He said .......

                  I'm licensed in Oregon and Washington and am a member of IBEW Local 48.

                  The notion of neutral and ground is indeed a confusing one, primarily because of unfortunate terminology.

                  First, a word to all those who oppose the phrase "current flow:" Buzz off! I am not going to further complicate this SAFETY issue with the phrase "charge flow." The terms "current" and "charge flow" and "current flow" all mean the same thing. If you don't like it, stop reading NOW.


                  "Current carrying" does not mean the same thing as "conducting." "Current carrying" is more like "hot" or "switched hot" or "traveler." Current does absolutely flow through the neutral, even though the neutral is not a "current carrying" conductor.

                  Under normal conditions, no current flows through the ground wire. Under certain fault conditions, current does flow through the ground wire - instead of where we don't want it.

                  The neutral is the grounded conductor, whereas the ground is the grounding conductor.
                  Last edited by harcosparky; 11-28-2012, 12:41 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks to Harcosparky for clearing things up, I was just going to let this thread be and let people assume what they wanted to, but thanks again for doing a little footwork and asking a professional. I even asked my neighbor (the electrician) if maybe my terminology was wrong on this one, and he said not to worry about it too much, i'm doing just fine. I don't deal with electrical as much as an electrician by any means, but as I said L1/L2/Neutral 3 wire setup, It is not a box with the ground bar and the neutral bar separated. Three wires run into the box from the power pole, and the ground is tied in at the pole. on the 110 circuits running into the box the bare grounds and the white neutrals all run to the same bar and the. How about you boys go buy yourselves a 6-50R plug and tell me where that 4th wire goes lmao. I think I will keep that maintenance degree Mr. Brocoli1, but what do I know I'm just some kind of idiot.

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                    • #11
                      http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...20voutlets.jpg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AdamSievers View Post
                        Thanks to Harcosparky for clearing things up, I was just going to let this thread be and let people assume what they wanted to, but thanks again for doing a little footwork and asking a professional. I even asked my neighbor (the electrician) if maybe my terminology was wrong on this one, and he said not to worry about it too much, i'm doing just fine. I don't deal with electrical as much as an electrician by any means, but as I said L1/L2/Neutral 3 wire setup, It is not a box with the ground bar and the neutral bar separated. Three wires run into the box from the power pole, and the ground is tied in at the pole. on the 110 circuits running into the box the bare grounds and the white neutrals all run to the same bar and the. How about you boys go buy yourselves a 6-50R plug and tell me where that 4th wire goes lmao. I think I will keep that maintenance degree Mr. Brocoli1, but what do I know I'm just some kind of idiot.
                        I wouldn't put it anywhere since you don't need 4 wires with a 6-50

                        I don't think you're an idiot but your casual attitude on what goes on with electricity
                        combined with you stating you do maintenance as well as wiring up a few 240v circuits but not understanding the difference between the Grounded conductor and Ground does concern me, I won't lose sleep though.

                        I apologize for making the snide comment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When I said

                          "On a 3 wire set up on 220/230 or whatever floats your boat, there is L1, L2, and Neutral. Technically there is no ground"

                          I was speaking of the wiring only, from the box to the 6-50P outlet, I know what the difference is, but when you only have your 3 wires coming from the power pole into the box, because the grounding conductor is tied into the same power block as the grounded conductor... or as I like to say "the neutral is connected to the ground in the box"
                          .

                          Yeah I know I sound casual when I speak it, but trust me man I take it seriously, dying is not on my list of things to do. I think this is all just a matter of my garage has an outdated wiring setup, I assumed you knew,and you assumed it was up to National electric code.

                          I rent, so it's staying that way... no separate grounding bar to appease those NEC fellas, oh well... I have renters insurance.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AdamSievers View Post
                            Yeah I know I sound casual when I speak it, but trust me man I take it seriously, dying is not on my list of things to do.
                            NEWS FLASH: It will happen one day...whether you like it or not. (Remember only two things you can be sure of: death and taxes)

                            Comment

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