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Cruizer, a question on a generator

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  • #16
    Cruizer,
    Would I be correct if I thought what you are saying is that one of the sets of windings is connected back to front thereby shifting its phase by 180 degrees so that it opposes the output of the other windings so as to cancel its output rather than compliment that output to produce 220v? Would the OP expect to find 0v across his hot sides of his two 120v outlets when there should be 220v there? And lastly if he plugged in ,say a 120v work light into each of his 120v outlets(thereby connecting the windings via the bulbs and commons would they light?
    Meltedmetal

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post
      Cruizer,
      Would I be correct if I thought what you are saying is that one of the sets of windings is connected back to front thereby shifting its phase by 180 degrees so that it opposes the output of the other windings so as to cancel its output rather than compliment that output to produce 220v? Would the OP expect to find 0v across his hot sides of his two 120v outlets when there should be 220v there? And lastly if he plugged in ,say a 120v work light into each of his 120v outlets(thereby connecting the windings via the bulbs and commons would they light?
      Meltedmetal
      Sorta, kinda, Not sure on the bulb idea, ss it doesn't care as long as there is a neutral and a hot to run it.

      Problem is on his single phase that the 2 hots are on the same phase, thus cancell each other out, so instead of getting the required 230, he's getting zero.

      Easy to find the missing phase though as its likely attached to one of the 120 receptacles

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      • #18
        Thanks- Just trying to get a picture in my head of what is going on there. Too bad he's so far away as it might be fun to stick a dual trace scope on there to get a visual. Take care.
        Meltedmetal

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        • #19
          Not a pure sine wave, so a scope would be pretty much useless, a simple AC voltmeter could dignose the problem, and solution quickly though

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          • #20
            Cruizer, I checked the generator out with my voltage tester by inserting the probe into one of the hot lugs on my 240 volt outlet and the other into the hot lug of the 120 volt outlet and all I get is 120 volts by checking both hot lug on the 240 volt outlet with a hot on either 120 volt outlet. I am stumped. As I said I can use this as a 120 volt generator. That is what I get for buying a cheap generator. I bought our daughter a Generac,I guess I should have bought one for myself too. I heard they are the best, using copper internally,where the cheaperbrands use aluminum. Anyway, I am thinki g something must be screwed up inside the generator. Any and all help is appreciated.

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            • #21
              My thinking on using a scope is to check the phase relationship between the two sets of windings. If on rises while the other falls against it they could theoretically cancel each other out. If they are in phase rising, together they should produce 220v when placed in series. Maybe I'm overthinking this.
              Have you ever tried to run 2 120v things at the same time from the two outlets? That is one from each set of windings. My suggestion would be light bulbs(incandescent if you still got 'em) since they are cheap and easily replaced. If they both light then I think you only have one set of windings working and somehow connected to both sides of your breaker and if it is not too big a pain I would disconnect and separate the commons to verify with a ohm/continuity meter that there is actually two independent sets of windings. That is continuity from hot to common on each set and with the commons disconnected no continuity between the hots. Obviously engine not running. If I have made an error in my thinking someone please correct me.
              Meltedmetal

              And remember your volt meter reads voltage drop between the test points not voltage present.
              Last edited by Meltedmetal; 10-17-2012, 07:37 AM. Reason: additional thought

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              • #22
                True, but a little technical for the OP. He's missing a phase all together

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by NMWelding View Post
                  I checked the generator out with my voltage tester by inserting the probe into one of the hot lugs on my 240 volt outlet and the other into the hot lug of the 120 volt outlet and all I get is 120 volts by checking both hot lug on the 240 volt outlet with a hot on either 120 volt outlet.
                  At this point you do not have sanity.

                  First, what is this "voltage tester" that you have? I hope it is a Volt-Ohm Meter so that you can measure voltage with the unit generator ON and then measure continuity with the generator OFF. If you don't have one, HF has one for 4 bucks. HD and Lowes also have them for about 10 bucks. A digital one with a continuity beeper is very handy and well worth the few extra bucks they charge for this feature.

                  Second, determine the hot leads on the 110 and 220 outlets. Measure and write down the voltages. Do this by sticking one probe in the socket and the other attached to the ground terminal located by the 220 outlet. You want to measure all of these against one reference point, in this case the ground terminal.

                  Third, stick one probe into the hot lead of one 110 outlet and the other in the other 110 outlet. You should either measure 0 or 220 vac. Do the same across the two hot leads of the 220 outlet. The only valid results are 0 or 220 vac. What you've reported above is not valid across any two hot leads.

                  Report your results. Also, you might want to poke around for a clue as to what was reconditioned on this unit. Hang in there!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Arizona Joe View Post
                    At this point you do not have sanity.

                    First, what is this "voltage tester" that you have? I hope it is a Volt-Ohm Meter so that you can measure voltage with the unit generator ON and then measure continuity with the generator OFF. If you don't have one, HF has one for 4 bucks. HD and Lowes also have them for about 10 bucks. A digital one with a continuity beeper is very handy and well worth the few extra bucks they charge for this feature.

                    Second, determine the hot leads on the 110 and 220 outlets. Measure and write down the voltages. Do this by sticking one probe in the socket and the other attached to the ground terminal located by the 220 outlet. You want to measure all of these against one reference point, in this case the ground terminal.

                    Third, stick one probe into the hot lead of one 110 outlet and the other in the other 110 outlet. You should either measure 0 or 220 vac. Do the same across the two hot leads of the 220 outlet. The only valid results are 0 or 220 vac. What you've reported above is not valid across any two hot leads.

                    Report your results. Also, you might want to poke around for a clue as to what was reconditioned on this unit. Hang in there!
                    he did that already- his last report, which you quoted is correct also- you just have to read it a couple times. at least I did.
                    Ed Conley
                    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by cruizer View Post
                      True, but a little technical for the OP. He's missing a phase all together
                      I think you are right,there must be a phase missing, but short of someone pulling a fast one during the "reconditioning" I can't see how the existing phase managed to get on the other side of the 220v breaker?? I'll admit I am just curious and if he was close by and would allow, I'd go tear it apart just to see what was done.
                      Meltedmetal

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
                        he did that already- his last report, which you quoted is correct also- you just have to read it a couple times. at least I did.
                        OK. But, how can he measure the voltage between ANY two hot terminals and get 120? Isn't that what he is saying?

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