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  • Metal brittle after welding

    I am manufactiuring a special post driver tool and am having a bit of trouble with the metal being brittle after welding and will snap off like a toothpick instead of bending like most metal will. It is mild steel-angle iron and 1 inch square tubing. There is vibration when the post driver is in use from all the pounding. I am wondering if the metal I am getting is not consistent in the carbon content and I am getting brittleness from the welding heat and I need to normalize and anneal the metal? Anybody got any ideas? Anybody having any trouble with the metal they are getting lately? Check the video and see the pounding I am talking about
    Thanks Virgil Johnson
    www.trailpostdriver.com
    Added-
    I am using a solar wire feed 130 amp running max amps .035 wire general purpose wire and 75/25 argon co2 gas no water quenching only air drying after welding.
    Here is a couple of pictures. I am now using a 3/16" wall tube and hope that will take care of the tube and I need to go with a thicker angle iron next batch. But I think I need some normalizing or annealing or maybe specify the metal type when I buy it I am not sure? The fails were by a weld
    Thanks Virgil
    Added- This is not bed frame the angle was typical angle you buy at the metal shop
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Virgil Johnson; 12-24-2011, 03:40 PM. Reason: need more info

  • #2
    Virgil
    first of all "Welcome Aboard"...... this place is a bag of mixed nuts... but I expect that you will sort the wheat from the chaff...............

    could you post some pics if cracks ans failures??...............

    also welding Process?? MIG?? filler wire type?? shield gas???
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

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    • #3
      New pictures and info

      I am using a solar wire feed 130 amp running max amps .035 wire general purpose wire and 75/25 argon co2 gas no water quenching only air drying after welding.
      Here is a couple of pictures. I am now using a 3/16" tube and hope that will take care of the tube and I need to go with a thicker angle iron next batch. But I think I need some normalizing or annealing or maybe specify the metal type when I buy it I am not sure? The fails were by a weld
      Thanks Virgil
      Attached Files
      Last edited by Virgil Johnson; 12-24-2011, 03:37 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        more questions???

        pure argon on steel???? should be 75/25 Argon-Co2 or straight Co2 for mild steel.... not straight Argon....

        What Grade and Brand of wire??? (ER70-XXX...???)


        That angle iron looks suspiciously like old bedrail.... if so... it is hardened high carbon spring steel........ Brittle as glass on repeated impacts.... if it is recycled bedframe.... that would be the bulk of your problem....
        Last edited by H80N; 12-24-2011, 01:31 PM.
        .

        *******************************************
        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

        My Blue Stuff:
        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
        Dynasty 200DX
        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
        Millermatic 200

        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

        Comment


        • #5
          Doubt it is a weld issue, mild steel just doesn't get that brittle under normal fabrication methods. More likely to be a design/engineering problem. Post up a picture of the whole item, with an arrow pointing to the location it is breaking.
          Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

          Comment


          • #6
            are the cracks on the angle iron ?is so i bet your probably useing 1/8th thickness angle iron .i have some in my shop and it's not really good to use i have had a few welds just rip right out of the angle. if your useing a thicker angle iron then i would think it might be your welding the thing up without taking a break and your over heating it that would make the metal brittle and break. i fabricate alot of small stuff and what i do is weld a little bit on one and then jump to the next and hop around i never weld up one piece at one time because it's just to much heat .like the others said we need pictures of the cracks and also your welding process would help to determine how hot your getting the metal. also like what the other member posted pure argon is not the gas you should be useing.

            Comment


            • #7
              new picture

              Sorry it is 75/25 argon c02 not sure about the wire just bought it at the welding store and I said I wanted general purpose wire and got FIREPOWER general purpose wire. It was not bed frame and I know what you mean about bed frame hard to drill and is brittle. I posted a new picture with areas that failed
              Thanks Virgil


              Originally posted by H80N View Post
              pure argon on steel???? should be 75/25 Argon-Co2 or straight Co2 for mild steel.... not straight Argon....

              What Grade and Brand of wire??? (ER70-XXX...???)


              That angle iron looks suspiciously like old bedrail.... if so... it is hardened high carbon spring steel........ Brittle as glass on repeated impacts.... if it is recycled bedframe.... that would be the bulk of your problem....

              Comment


              • #8
                Make sure your using a gas mix. Also step down in wire to .030 because I don't think your machine has the muscle to truely burn .035, so you may not be putting down a good weld. It does look like the material is tearing thought so maybe thicker is better.

                Comment


                • #9
                  new picture posted

                  I posted a new picture with failed points
                  Thanks Virgil

                  Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
                  Doubt it is a weld issue, mild steel just doesn't get that brittle under normal fabrication methods. More likely to be a design/engineering problem. Post up a picture of the whole item, with an arrow pointing to the location it is breaking.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looks like failure in the angle iron HAZ. Probably foreign steel.

                    Switch to domestic material with S6 filler and C25 shielding gas.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      where the angle is cracked away... from what I can see it looks like you did not get enough heat into the bead... think JayO is on the right track with the 030 suggestion.... those little welders do not have a lot of horsepower...


                      and if it is one of the 120v models like the Solar 2130 it is "Really Sensitive" to the voltage drop you see with an extension cord... and has even less horsepower as a result..
                      Last edited by H80N; 12-24-2011, 04:02 PM. Reason: addl info
                      .

                      *******************************************
                      The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                      “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                      Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                      My Blue Stuff:
                      Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200DX
                      Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                      Millermatic 200

                      TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1/8th metal

                        Yes it is 1/8th angle I will use thicker on the next batch probably 3/16 or maybe more I will test before I build any more. I posted a couple of more pictures and sorry I edited the post I am using 75/25 argon co2
                        Thanks Virgil


                        Originally posted by tommy2069 View Post
                        are the cracks on the angle iron ?is so i bet your probably useing 1/8th thickness angle iron .i have some in my shop and it's not really good to use i have had a few welds just rip right out of the angle. if your useing a thicker angle iron then i would think it might be your welding the thing up without taking a break and your over heating it that would make the metal brittle and break. i fabricate alot of small stuff and what i do is weld a little bit on one and then jump to the next and hop around i never weld up one piece at one time because it's just to much heat .like the others said we need pictures of the cracks and also your welding process would help to determine how hot your getting the metal. also like what the other member posted pure argon is not the gas you should be useing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          metal

                          Thaks I wondered about the metal I am getting? Must have spots where there is high carbon and who knows what else? I wonder if normalizing and annealing will take care of it? As I never know where the metal comes from unless I can specify. I have used the drivers for years and had only a couple of failures that I know of but now I am getting more failures and need to make it heavier and maybe heat treatment
                          Thanks Virgil



                          Originally posted by Keith_J View Post
                          Looks like failure in the angle iron HAZ. Probably foreign steel.

                          Switch to domestic material with S6 filler and C25 shielding gas.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i don't think it's the iron i think it has more to do with the thickness of it and the heat from welding.switch to 3/16 angle and take your time on the welding and that should take care of the failures.never had any good results with 1/8th metal when it comes to dealing with stress and being it's a pole driver it's a high stress item so scrap that thin stuff and move up to no less than 3/16 metal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              think this will require a more substantial welder as well..................
                              .

                              *******************************************
                              The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                              Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                              My Blue Stuff:
                              Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                              Dynasty 200DX
                              Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                              Millermatic 200

                              TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                              Comment

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