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question using 8vs suitcase with old ac/dc stick welder for power

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  • question using 8vs suitcase with old ac/dc stick welder for power

    Hi All,
    I just bought a used 8vs. I have an old(1971) Miller 250AC/DC stick welder for power. I have the stick welder on DC reverse, the electrode wire into the 8vs, work to clamp on metal, sensing clamp to metal, 8vs set to CC.
    Does all this sound correct?

    The 8vs wire feed speed control is adjusted by percent. When using my welding chart for welding a certain thickness metal it refers to inches per minute. How does this correspond to the percentages on the wire feed speed control knob on the 8vs?

    Do I still use the Amp control on the stick welder to control the amps on the 8vs?

    I'm running solid wire(.035) with 75/25 Argon/co2 mix
    Thanks for the help.
    Mike

  • #2
    I believe it is a % of the maximum wire feed speed.

    "Use switch to select high or low wire
    speed range. High range is 100 to
    700 ipm. Low range is 50 to 350 ipm."

    That is from the On Line manual so not sure if those numbers match your feeder
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
    MM252
    MM211
    Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
    TA185
    Miller 125c Plasma 120v
    O/A set
    SO 2020 Bender
    You can call me Bacchus

    Comment


    • #3
      utumike,

      The 8 VS wirefeeder was designed to be used on a CV (constant voltage) power source.

      Your AC/DC buzzbox is a CC (constant current) power source.

      You're not going to be happy with the results. Nearly impossible to short arc and the power supply doesn't have the ba11s for globular or spray arc.

      That power supply/feeder make a poor pairing for normal mig welding.

      You'd probably be better off, if mig is the objective, to sell the feeder and buy a stand alone mig.
      Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
      Dynasty 200 DX
      Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
      Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
      Hobart HH187
      Dialarc 250 AC/DC
      Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
      Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
      PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
      Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
      Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
      More grinders than hands

      Comment


      • #4
        SundownIII "The 8 VS wirefeeder was designed to be used on a CV (constant voltage) power source."

        The 8vs is made to use on cc or cv machines. It has a switch to set for either.
        MM250
        Trailblazer 250g
        22a feeder
        Lincoln ac/dc 225
        Victor O/A
        MM200 black face
        Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
        Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
        Arco roto-phase model M
        Vectrax 7x12 band saw
        Miller spectrum 875
        30a spoolgun w/wc-24
        Syncrowave 250
        RCCS-14

        Comment


        • #5
          MMW,

          I stand by my previous comment.

          That "switch" doesn't tell you what results to expect.

          Do the homework.

          If the OP intends to run dual shield in spray arc mode he doesn't have the HP for it. If his intended use is short arc (solid wire and C25), then it's a poor setup.
          Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
          Dynasty 200 DX
          Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
          Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
          Hobart HH187
          Dialarc 250 AC/DC
          Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
          Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
          PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
          Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
          Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
          More grinders than hands

          Comment


          • #6
            old stick welder seams to have plenty of power

            Thanks for your replies.
            The old stick welder goes up to 350 amps on DC reverse. I haven't had the chance to use this set up yet because I welded the wire to the tip on a practice run(bummer) I had the amps way to high. It was on 250 amps. It burned right through 1/4 in. For some reason i thought the 8vs adjusted the amps for the operator. Now i realize that i have to adjust the amps on the stick welder.
            If anyone else has this set up, I would be interested in your advise.
            Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              I have been talking to these guys about the same thing for about a week look at my post Weld Control it should help you out as it did me. I have a Lincoln LN-25 feeder similar to 8vs and i put it on CCmode and run flux cored wire it isnt the best but it works. Wirefeeders work the best on CV machines.

              Comment


              • #8
                Excerpt from a Millerwelds article
                "CC power sources, most notably older "DC generator" style engine drives used in the construction industry, are designed for Stick/TIG welding. In the past, contractors often adapted them for spray transfer MIG and flux cored welding by adding a voltage sensing wire feeder (short circuit MIG is very limited with this set up). Today, many engineering firms, construction companies and building codes no longer allow flux cored welding (FCAW) with a CC power source. It does not provide adequate assurance that the weld is being made with the proper voltage because operators must hunt for a voltage because the voltage fluxuates on a volt/amp curve from the CC power source"

                Comment


                • #9
                  walker,

                  Thanks for posting that link.

                  Don't understand some people. Even though you tell them fire is hot, they still have to stick their hand in it and get burned.

                  I'll say it one more time.

                  CC buzzboxes with feeders make lousy short arc mig welding setups. Don't give a **** if the feeder has a CC/CV switch or not.
                  Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                  Dynasty 200 DX
                  Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                  Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                  Hobart HH187
                  Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                  Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                  Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                  PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                  Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                  Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                  More grinders than hands

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
                    CC buzzboxes with feeders make lousy short arc mig welding setups. Don't give a **** if the feeder has a CC/CV switch or not.
                    I have a Lincoln LN-25 loaded with 035 hard wire right now. Usually only use this with a CV power source, just for giggles I'll try it out with a CC power source today or tomorrow. Setting up a new truck right now, my time is my own. I'll report back with results and conclusions.

                    I will mention, I do have many many hours running wire, both Innershield and dual-shields, off CC power sources. The trick is setting amps and wire speed correctly, then consistently maintaining the correct stick-out to hold voltage where it needs to be. I'll give it a try with short-arc MIG, never done this before.
                    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sun Down The 8 VS feeder is a Voltage sensing feeder designed for machines that do not offer constant Voltage, Its the 8 RC feeders that have to run off the constant voltage. Which are what I use off my Trail blazers, Pipe Pro and XMT 304.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Portable Welder,

                        The VS in 8VS means it's a "voltage sensing" feeder. How do you propose adjusting the volts on a CC buzzbox?

                        The advantage to the VS is that it does not require a control wire to the power supply and can be used considerably further away from the power supply than the RC feeders (which are generally limited to about 100').

                        The VS feeders have to be used on the Bobcat's etc, that lack the 14 pin connector and wiring for remote control. On CV machines, such as the Bobcat, you still have to set the volts at the power supply and control your amps (via WFS) at the feeder.

                        The Miller GMAW Handbook has an excellent explanation of why CV machines are used for short arc mig welding.

                        I have a 12RC that I use on my XMT304 with the power supply set to mig.
                        Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                        Dynasty 200 DX
                        Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                        Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                        Hobart HH187
                        Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                        Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                        Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                        PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                        Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                        Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                        More grinders than hands

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The fact that this question, "Using a feeder on a CC power supply" continues to come up, simply tells me that there are a lot of posters who don't understand the mig welding process.

                          From my first post, where I stated "CC power supples and VS feeders make poor partners for short arc mig welding" , to the current comments about 8VS feeders have a "switch" for CC/CV, all I hear is but.....

                          I have provided a reference (Miller's GMAW Handbook) that explains the process better than I ever could, but some choose to either not check it out, or wish to dispute the facts.

                          The research should start on page 11 of above reference. I quote from that reference, "The CV welding machine is most often used for GMAW. The CC type welding machine can be used for GMAW, but it usually requires a voltage-sensing wire feeder and DELIVERS A SPRAY OR GLOBULAR TRANSFER ONLY.

                          Has anyone ever considered WHY Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, etc, do not list wirefeeders as one of the "recommended options" on any of the CC only machines they sell?

                          One more time.

                          A Syncrowave and a wirefeeder make a lousy choice for a short arc mig welding setup.
                          Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                          Dynasty 200 DX
                          Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                          Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                          Hobart HH187
                          Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                          Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                          Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                          PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                          Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                          Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                          More grinders than hands

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ON a voltage sensing feeder in CV, as you turn the wire speed knob, your adjusting current (amperage)

                            On a voltage sensing feeder in CC your adjusting voltage with the wire speed knob.

                            In CC your NOT going to get any kind of short arc, it will be spray or close to it.

                            Thats why it works ok with dual shield wires but thats about it.

                            Forget about using a normal plug in feeder on a CC machine, as its virtually impossible to control your wire stickout, that said, I have hooked up some S-60 feeders and contactors out of a voltage sensing feeder to SRH stick machines to run big 3/32 and above dual shield wire. In that senerio , the feeders ran satisfactory

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Portable Welder View Post
                              Sun Down The 8 VS feeder is a Voltage sensing feeder designed for machines that do not offer constant Voltage, Its the 8 RC feeders that have to run off the constant voltage. Which are what I use off my Trail blazers, Pipe Pro and XMT 304.
                              The RC feeders merely use the supplied 24VAc from the machine to run, and care less what the actual output stud voltage is, thats for the operator to input.

                              Only the VS feeders rely on what the output studs are producing coupled with what the operatoer demands from the machine.

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