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DIALARC 250 AC/DC and a HF-251D-1 Compatablity Issues

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  • DIALARC 250 AC/DC and a HF-251D-1 Compatablity Issues

    I am completely new to GTAW and need some help/advice. I have a white faced older DIALARC 250 AC/DC and a HF-251D-1. I have read from previous posts that this is not an optimal setup because there is no contactor on the older DIALARC machine. In the HF manual it mentions that the HF unit can be "field equipped" with output control (contactor) for use with welding units without a contactor, does anyone know if Miller still offers this output control for older HF models ? The DIALARC is from the early 70's and the HF I think from the late 80's. The TIG torch has a hand control for gas flow and High Frequency but I would love to get a foot pedal current control device for the TIG. Any help is greatly appreciated !

  • #2
    You have the same problem that I have... I just read about the secondary contactor for the HF unit and the part number is 041969. Dont know if we can order one or not and still unsure if this is the only part we need. Let me know if you find out anything on this please.

    Weldfabulous has one for 414.00
    Last edited by goodguy014; 10-25-2011, 01:00 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      FYI,
      I just got off the phone with Miller and the guy said you would need the secondary contactor for the hf unit part #041969, RFC 23a foot pedal and part #041111 switch for the dialarc to be able to control it remotely.

      Comment


      • #4
        Did you get a cost for all that gear?

        Comment


        • #5
          Both of those items are field kits and still available. miller4less.com is a good source. The RFC-23A (242199020) is also available at miller4less.com for $334.68
          and occassionally used on ebay, craigslist, etc.

          041 111 is $54.29
          041 969 is (are you sitting down?) $414.31

          041 111 is more than a switch. It's the single pole double throw (SPDT) switch required to select either panel or remote current control as well as the 3 wire, 3 pole 20A, 250V twist-lock receptacle to plug the RFC-23A into. It also includes a selector switch label and required hardware. The field kit is convenient but the components (other than the label) can be picked up for less.

          You can see what 041 969 field contactor kit looks like on the second page of the HF-251 flyer http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AY5-0.pdf. Half way down on the left. The kit comes with the contactor and everything to hook it up same as the remote kit. Again, the kit is convenient but other options could be less expensive if one knew what they were doing to make the modification.

          The RFC-23A would need to be equipped with a 14-pin plug on the 2-conductor cable to mate up to the HF-251D for contactor control and the 3-conductor cable set up with a 3-prong twist-lock to plug into the new Dialarc remote current control receptacle. There's at least one other way to connect it all up but it would require a lot more modifying and again, one would need to have to know what they are doing.
          Last edited by duaneb55; 10-29-2011, 03:26 PM. Reason: speling airer
          MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
          Syncrowave 180 SD
          Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
          *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
          *HF-251D-1
          *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
          PakMaster 100XL
          Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

          Comment


          • #6
            WOW I was sitting down but that still is ridiculous so its almost 800$ for all the controls? I cant justify that any way you look at it ! I still need to find parts for the torch to get it complete. I plan on posting another thread about the missing torch parts hopefully it wont cost 800$ !

            Comment


            • #7
              I said the field kits were convenient. They're just not cheap.


              However, I'd say one could set the Dialarc 250 up with the equivalent of the remote field kit and a contactor with local/remote control for a couple hundred or less. A 3-pole AC motor contactor with an 80-100 amp rating with a 115/120VAC coil would do the trick. 2 and 3-prong twist lock plugs and receptacles are standard items as are the single pole double throw (SPDT) toggle switches that would be needed.

              Used RFC-23A's can be found for reasonable prices as well so I would think you could make it all happen for less than half the field kit and new RFC-23A total cost.
              MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
              Syncrowave 180 SD
              Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
              *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
              *HF-251D-1
              *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
              PakMaster 100XL
              Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

              Comment


              • #8
                Has anyone wired a setup like the one you describe? I am no electrical engineer but I can follow a wiring diagram.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yup. If you'll give me the Dialarc SN and have a little patience I can work up a modification schematic and list of materials for you.
                  MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
                  Syncrowave 180 SD
                  Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
                  *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
                  *HF-251D-1
                  *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
                  PakMaster 100XL
                  Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually, I'll do one better and tell you to check out the circuit diagram and wiring diagram shown on pages 19-21 of the Dialarc HF manual http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o315u_mil.pdf that will show you exactly what is needed wiring wise for both the remote control and weld output contactor.

                    Disregard the water and gas valves as well as the post flow timer and focus on the weld contactor "W" coil and contacts. You also won't have the temperature switches either unless you want to go to that extreme.

                    If you want to duplicate the 24VAC contactor control you'll have to add a 120/240V to 24V transformer and the motor contactor you choose will have to have a 24VAC coil. Otherwise, you can set up a 115V contactor control circuit and use a more common 115V coil contactor.
                    MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
                    Syncrowave 180 SD
                    Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
                    *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
                    *HF-251D-1
                    *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
                    PakMaster 100XL
                    Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Crazy.

                      Spend all this money on a machine that was never designed as a tig welder. The DialArc 250 AC/DC is a GREAT stick welder but a lousy tig, no matter what mods you make.

                      For less money, you could find a nice, clean, 330 A/BP, and you'd have yourself a tig welder.

                      It totally escapes me why some people insist on trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
                      Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200 DX
                      Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                      Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                      Hobart HH187
                      Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                      Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                      Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                      PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                      Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                      Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                      More grinders than hands

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Crazy to spend $800 on the Miller field kits and new RFC-23A for sure SundownIII to put remote on the Dialarc (an option on the machine) and contactor on the HF-251D-1 (also an option as you know).

                        But for $50 for an ebay/surplus contactor and $30-40 for some standard plugs and receptacles along with a couple hours time to make better use of what the OP already has I wouldn't consider such.

                        No doubt it still won't have all the features of a 330 A/BP or a host of other machines but the Dialarc HF is based on the Dialarc 250 AC-DC internals so I wouldn't consider it a lousy TIG but just limited with these two simple mods IMO.


                        Kinda like spending $100 and a few hours to put a 14-pin with 24/115VAC and remote contactor control on my Bobcat 225G Plus. Won't turn it into Trailblazer but sure makes it a lot handier with the HF-251D-1, spoolgun, wire feeder and other accessories for the time and money.
                        Last edited by duaneb55; 11-04-2011, 06:01 AM.
                        MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
                        Syncrowave 180 SD
                        Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
                        *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
                        *HF-251D-1
                        *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
                        PakMaster 100XL
                        Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          duane,

                          Understand where you're coming from.

                          For a guy "who's capable" of doing these mods himself, it may make some sense, but you still end up with a "minimal tig" machine.

                          Reading the inputs, it doesn't sound like either of the other posters have the knowledge/experience to do the upgrade themselves.

                          With the amount of older, quality tig welders available on the used market (not just miller), this seems like a wayward approach. I've owned a Dialarc 250 HF, and I can tell you, even compared to a 1977 Sync 250, it's a primitive tig welder.

                          If the OP is feeding sufficient current to the Dialarc, he's already past the biggest deterent to using one of the older tig beasts.
                          Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                          Dynasty 200 DX
                          Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                          Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                          Hobart HH187
                          Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                          Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                          Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                          PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                          Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                          Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                          More grinders than hands

                          Comment

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