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  • #16
    You dont have to explain this to me.
    Where I work '"in a mine on top of a mountain" we dont use gas-less fluxcore, it's just not good enough". We use it outside or inside.
    If we use it outside, we tent it up.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JTMcC View Post
      Define "all around better wire".
      I'm guessing you haven't tryed to build many tents atop a mountain or in a valley. In heavy winds.
      Flux core is used where it's used for some very good reasons.
      Don't confuse "easy to run" with "better".

      J

      I should add that even inside, FC is used in a lot of applications (look at heavy equipment construction) where the designer want's to save welding time ($$$) by taking advantage of the deep penetration FC gives. That effectively reduces the required size on fillet welds and that = large money in the bank.
      I haven't use much innershield wire that had all around good mechanical properties.

      At the mine, we use only dual shielded inside and outside.
      Outside, until you cant shield yourself enough anymore. Then we use stick.
      We haven't find a practical innershielded to replace dualshielded for our application.
      That's why I think dualshielded is a better all around.
      But hey what do I know.

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      • #18
        [QUOTE=Daniel;273199]I haven't use much innershield wire that had all around good mechanical properties.

        QUOTE]




        Then you're using the wrong wires. The mechanical requirements for the T-8 wires (a self shielded FC) are the same as for the T-1 (a gas shielded FC), except for a 2% difference in elongation #'s.

        J

        But, the T-8 wires require considerable more skill in the workforce. All of the voltage sensitive wires are considerably more difficult to use, but they're used by the rail car load in structural steel urection, bridge construction, etc. In fact their main purpose in life is to meet severe siesmic regulation.
        Last edited by JTMcC; 10-10-2011, 08:54 PM.
        Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Daniel View Post
          Where I work '"in a mine on top of a mountain" we dont use gas-less fluxcore, it's just not good enough".



          With a little effort you can get (for free), literature from Lincoln, Hobart, Esab, etc that plainly lists the chemical and mechanical properties of just about any consumable made.
          That would help prevent making ignorant statements like the one above.

          J
          Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JTMcC View Post
            With a little effort you can get (for free), literature from Lincoln, Hobart, Esab, etc that plainly lists the chemical and mechanical properties of just about any consumable made.
            That would help prevent making ignorant statements like the one above.

            J
            Before you go on and call people ignorant you should read and understand .
            The engineers, where I work are telling us to use this gas shielded fluxcore "" which is ultracore from Lincoln " because it is the best for our heavy equipment repair, electric shovels and drills etc..
            I think if they could they would tell us to use self-shielded fluxcore.
            Plus as a bonus it doesn't spatter like most self-shielded fluxcore.

            But hey, what do I know.

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            • #21
              WOW.... so i guess i have not herd of the dual sheild before. So as far as flux core goes i could probly ask my welding supplier but it seems you all have more time using it than they would what type should i get? i do weld on equipment every now and then like excivator buckets and so on. what is the best tinsle stregnth? or what have you guys found that works the best for heavy equipment?

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              • #22
                Why wont you try them both and see which one you like the best. Me, I cant stand the spatter and harder to remove slag of the self-shield fluxcore.
                Last edited by Daniel; 10-11-2011, 05:21 PM.

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                • #23
                  The following are just my opinions from my experience.

                  I like dual shield best for in the shop. My preference is ESAB 7100 ultra. I have run 1/16" & .045. I like to run it with straight CO2 better than a 75/25 mix. The dual shield is wind sensitive so using it outside creates problems unless you are willing to "tent up", make wind blocks, etc. Most of the time there is always some kind of breeze where I am.

                  For in the field I like to use Hobart Fabshield 21B. I used to use Lincoln NR212 but IMO the Hobart runs nicer at least on my machine. I have also heard good things about Lincoln NR232 but have never used it. It is nice to just go & weld without worrying about wind issues.

                  I would say that on equally clean material both wires will produce a nice looking bead with minimal clean up. The innershield produces more smoke in the air.

                  I should add that on 3/16"-1/4" & thinner in the shop I prefer bare wire over dual shield.
                  Last edited by MMW; 10-13-2011, 04:52 PM. Reason: added last sentance to clarify.
                  MM250
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Daniel View Post
                    Before you go on and call people ignorant you should read and understand .
                    The engineers, where I work are telling us to use this gas shielded fluxcore "" which is ultracore from Lincoln " because it is the best for our heavy equipment repair, electric shovels and drills etc..
                    I think if they could they would tell us to use self-shielded fluxcore.
                    Plus as a bonus it doesn't spatter like most self-shielded fluxcore.

                    But hey, what do I know.


                    I did. And I do.
                    That's fine that you use what you're told to use.
                    But your comments (specially about mechanicals) was, ignorant of the facts. Period.
                    Everyone on the planet is ignorant on many topics. What's a little annoying is when people post online about topics they don't have a good grasp of.
                    If you have a splatter problem with ss fcaw then you're doing it wrong.
                    Despite the engineers at the company you work for there are an awfull lot of shovel dippers and car bodies, blast hole drills, haul truck frames and beds, etc welded every day with ss fcaw.

                    JT

                    I'll add that I'm fairly ignorant (happily) on calculus and triginometry. But for me to post on the interweb that "we use trig at work, calculus just isn't good enough" would be silly and make me look even dumber than I am.
                    Right tool, right job, right place. It's really that simple.
                    Last edited by JTMcC; 10-13-2011, 02:49 PM.
                    Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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                    • #25
                      Well I've been a journeyman structural welder for 3 decades now and not too often do I see innershield being used. A lot of money is spent hoarding in the weld area to allow the use of shielding gas, that also adds to the expence. Even when I worked in a shop that manufactured bridge girders we only used dual shield. They tried new innershield wires as they came out but always went back to dual shield. They must be ignorant. The only common application I know is hard surfacing in the oilsands with stoody wire other than that Sucore and Syncrude use dual shield. What do they know. When we built the coal bunkers at the unit 3 powerstation at Keephills it was dual shield except for the stainless which was solid wire with argon. I hate when people make ignorant claims that innershield is just as good. Or is there something that Suncore,Syncrude,Alstom power,Tansalta,Epcore, Capital power, or the minister of transportation and highways missing? I don't argue that innershield can produce passable welds but I don't know of anyone that wants to use it. If thats your cup of tea then fill your boots.

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                      • #26
                        I never heard of anyone not getting spatter with innershield. I get a lot of smoke as well. Mabey if I knew how to weld properly I could eliminate that too.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JTMcC View Post
                          I did. And I do.
                          That's fine that you use what you're told to use.
                          But your comments (specially about mechanicals) was, ignorant of the facts. Period.
                          Everyone on the planet is ignorant on many topics. What's a little annoying is when people post online about topics they don't have a good grasp of.
                          If you have a splatter problem with ss fcaw then you're doing it wrong.
                          Despite the engineers at the company you work for there are an awfull lot of shovel dippers and car bodies, blast hole drills, haul truck frames and beds, etc welded every day with ss fcaw.

                          JT

                          I'll add that I'm fairly ignorant (happily) on calculus and triginometry. But for me to post on the interweb that "we use trig at work, calculus just isn't good enough" would be silly and make me look even dumber than I am.
                          Right tool, right job, right place. It's really that simple.
                          Well I'm good at calculus and trigononetry, I have to be I'm a journeyman welder/fabricator.
                          As for the innershield, I'v used it and absolutaly dont care for it. If I'd be a sub-contractor doing structural and want to save some money maybe, and I mean structural.

                          You look like you feel very powerfull behind your keyboard calling people names, and that shows what type of man you are.

                          Keep up the good work Sir.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rollinstones View Post
                            I don't argue that innershield can produce passable welds but I don't know of anyone that wants to use it.
                            Innershield isn't my go to wire at any level, but i did see on the History Channel a while back on welding skyscrapers in the big cities. And innershield was the only wire used welding together the big beams that looked to be 2 or more inches thick. It also said on how much money was saved by not having to change rods and the wasted stubs in stick welding. It showed the welders with big mig guns with heat shields on the front with no nozzle on the gun. It was interesting to see as i never would have thought that...Bob
                            Bob Wright

                            Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                            http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Daniel View Post
                              Well I'm good at calculus and trigononetry, I have to be I'm a journeyman welder/fabricator.
                              As for the innershield, I'v used it and absolutaly dont care for it. If I'd be a sub-contractor doing structural and want to save some money maybe, and I mean structural.

                              You look like you feel very powerfull behind your keyboard calling people names, and that shows what type of man you are.

                              Keep up the good work Sir.



                              Uh, nobody called you any names.
                              You don't like the wire. We get it. I'd rather not run any wire myself but do from time to time and I can appreciate the advantages in certain circumstances of a lot of different wires wether I want to use them or not.
                              But when you say the wire is no good you defy the facts.
                              Don't overcomplicate this and don't make it a personal thing. I'm simply pointing out that a lot of critical welds are made with FCAW (in several fields), regardless of anybody's personal opinion of the wires.
                              People who've only run the 211 type wires and never used 232, 203N, 311N (or the Hobart/Esab equivelents) won't realize the large differences that exist in FC.
                              Most of the splatter coments probably come from people who've used 211 or 21b.

                              JT
                              Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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                              • #30
                                I'm not complicating anything, I've simply stated that gas-shielded FC is a better wire to work with in my book. As I use wire day in and day out, 12 hours a day.
                                You ask me to define I defined. Now move along.

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