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Challenge Ontario Journeyman Exam.

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  • Challenge Ontario Journeyman Exam.

    Ive been wanting to find a apprentiship since i got out of school but there seems to be nothing in my area. I have been working in a Fabrication shop where I do something different every day. I would like to know what it takes to challenge the Journeyman exam.

    I read in some places you need a journeyman to sign off on your hours, does this journeyman have to be a co-worker or can any journeyman sign it for you?

    Any help would be great!!

    Cheers,
    Howie

  • #2
    Originally posted by Howie View Post
    Ive been wanting to find a apprentiship since i got out of school but there seems to be nothing in my area. I have been working in a Fabrication shop where I do something different every day. I would like to know what it takes to challenge the Journeyman exam.

    I read in some places you need a journeyman to sign off on your hours, does this journeyman have to be a co-worker or can any journeyman sign it for you?

    Any help would be great!!

    Cheers,
    Howie
    Howie,

    What aprenticship are you interested in ?
    What Trade ?

    . .........Norm

    Comment


    • #3
      Ontario "Journeyman"..??

      Howie, to my knowledge there is no such thing in Ontario to date as a "Journeyman Welder". There is no Governement sanctioned apprenticeship other than what is provided by the unions. Officially "Welder" is not recognized as a trade in Ontario. If that has changed..someone please tell me when that happened.! To my knowledge welder is still considered a skill not a trade there.

      BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan do in fact have apprenticeships that work towards official Journeyman status and have synchronized their programs as well as far as I know. Official also means that there is a "standard" rate of pay as well. 1 yr apprentice will earn 60% of Journeyman, 2nd yr - 75% and 3rd yr 90%.

      BTW: CWB certification is not the same as Journeyman status in these provinces. CWB certs expire as well (12-18Months.?), a Journeyman ticket does not...I've had mine since 1979 .. & still have it. I am not sure of BC and Sask, but in Alberta I do believe you can challenge 1st year with proof of time in the trade. Not so sure about 2nd yr or 3rd anymore (it used to be at one time but I believe they stopped that practice.)

      The Red seal, which you will undoubtedly hear about, is nothin more than a 100 question multiple guess type exam. No practical at all. So for all intents and purposes, useless. Typically written only after one has completed 3rd year TQ (Trade Qualification exams).

      This is one of the biggest issues facing our country and contributes to the difficulty in movement country wide and the subsequent recognition of credentials. The fact that each province in the country has different standards, that there is no national apprenticeship program. It is in my opinion one of the reasons we are constantly behind the times in both utilization of technology and productivity.

      Rgds,

      stk
      Last edited by Steakman; 04-15-2011, 09:36 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thats a touchy subject on this site!!!!!!
        Its all about the welding/welder,,, dont matter what you have in your pocket or hanging off the wall you can either weld or cant !! dont matter if its CWB, RED-SEAL OR JOURNEYMAN/WOMEN..........IT is all just paper, I have seen guys with more certs than one can carry and welds look like $hit, then guys who dont have any cert and can make welds look like a work of art!!!

        So in my way of thought, even though you have paper saying you can weld you should be able to!!!
        The same goes with any trade!!
        **** ive seen licensed mechanics that couldnt repair a go-cart,, but the cert on the wall says they are a auto Tech!!
        But hey thats just me !!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by nfinch86 View Post
          Howie,

          What aprenticship are you interested in ?
          What Trade ?

          . .........Norm
          Take a wild guess....

          Comment


          • #6
            just worthless paper eh..??

            Its all about the welding/welder,,, dont matter what you have in your pocket or hanging off the wall you can either weld or cant !! dont matter if its CWB, RED-SEAL OR JOURNEYMAN/WOMEN..........IT is all just paper,
            Sorry buddy..but I call BS on that. Yea there's no argument that many come out of a 3 yr apprenticehsip with not the gereatest work ethic..but up here in Alberta, there are minimum standards. For the TQ you MUST:

            pass root/face bends on: 4 plates - 8" long 3/8" wall T with 60 deg incl angle/ 1/8 root/land all to be welded in the following positions:

            Flat, horiz, vert & Overhead using 6010 root (keyhole style), 7018 fill/cap.

            I dont care what you or anyone else says, if you can do that successfully you know how to weld with SMAW. That is what it takes to get a Journeyman ticket here..once you have that, you can command the going rate...PERIOD.

            Now if a guy/gal is real good, in a year with some practice he/she can take a B ticket test which is a 6" sch 80 pipe in 2G/5G..and command an even better rate...that paper matters too.! Without it, you don't weld pipe up here. That ticket is good for 18 months upon which you re-qualify on 6G.

            As for wire processes, I could likely teach any Anyone in a day (no offense to anyone here), how to run wire: Solid, Flux core or Metal core. Easy stuff...stick welding on the other hand is not and requries skill and practise....lots of it.

            This is why i commented previously on the need for a standardized apprenticeship training program across the country. In Ontario one can go to a college, take a 6-8 month course and come out with some fancy paper saying you are a "welder"...well with those kinds of courses/certificates...I agree - not worth the paper they are printed upon..but in provinces with actual apprenticeship courses & using course outlines dreived from industry suggestions, you get guys that can do the job.


            stk
            Last edited by Steakman; 04-18-2011, 11:21 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Steakman View Post
              Sorry buddy..but I call BS on that. Yea there's no argument that many come out of a 3 yr apprenticehsip with not the gereatest work ethic..but up here in Alberta, there are minimum standards. For the TQ you MUST:

              pass root/face bends on: 4 plates - 8" long 3/8" wall T with 60 deg incl angle/ 1/8 root/land all to be welded in the following positions:

              Flat, horiz, vert & Overhead using 6010 root (keyhole style), 7018 fill/cap.

              I dont care what you or anyone else says, if you can do that successfully you know how to weld with SMAW. That is what it takes to get a Journeyman ticket here..once you have that, you can command the going rate...PERIOD.

              Now if a guy/gal is real good, in a year with some practice he/she can take a B ticket test which is a 6" sch 80 pipe in 2G/5G..and command an even better rate...that paper matters too.! Without it, you don't weld pipe up here. That ticket is good for 18 months upon which you re-qualify on 6G.

              As for wire processes, I could likely teach any Anyone in a day (no offense to anyone here), how to run wire: Solid, Flux core or Metal core. Easy stuff...stick welding on the other hand is not and requries skill and practise....lots of it.

              This is why i commented previously on the need for a standardized apprenticeship training program across the country. In Ontario one can go to a college, take a 6-8 month course and come out with some fancy paper saying you are a "welder"...well with those kinds of courses/certificates...I agree - not worth the paper they are printed upon..but in provinces with actual apprenticeship courses & using course outlines dreived from industry suggestions, you get guys that can do the job.


              stk
              Anyone with the skill can achieve 4G SMAW certification through CWB testing wether an apprentice or journyperson.Other provinces besides Alberta have Welding apprenticeship programs... don't know why all the hype over the one Alberta has.As for B tickets it is the same as CWB...provided by governing bodies seperate from training instituions.Aside from having Journeyperson (really just a papertrail of schooling),the CWB,AWS,B PRESSURE,etc are really the certifications that matter.Money,skill,(maybe post-journeyperson prerequest) will get you the qualications that matter in job placement.A journeyperson with no welding tickets will be unemployed longer than an apprentice with welding tickets.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by reggie View Post
                Aside from having Journeyperson (really just a papertrail of schooling),the CWB,AWS,B PRESSURE,etc are really the certifications that matter. Money,skill,(maybe post-journeyperson prerequest) will get you the qualications that matter in job placement.

                A journeyperson with no welding tickets will be unemployed longer than an apprentice with welding tickets.
                REALLY?..... I generally don't bother with you because you are an Ignoramus, and an Inflated Windbag, but you don't have a CLUE about this.

                The whole CWB vs Jouneyperson debate is a dead horse. Bottom Line - Those of us who HAVE an Alberta Journeyman Certificate in ANY Compulsory Trade recognize what it took to achieve it... And those of you who DON'T try to inflate your credentials and make yourselves believe that you are "The Same"

                I am NOT slighting the B.C. system, but I am speaking specifically for the system that I went through TWICE in 2 seperate Compulsory Trades.

                The Interprovincial Red Seal is a JOKE, and isn't worth the paper it is printed on, so I don't really have much faith in anyone running around puffing their chest out calling themselves a "Red Seal" Welder. It's about as funny to me as them calling themselves "Journeyman" when their province or territory doesn't even HAVE that Designation.

                You are NOT allowed to be employed as a welder in Alberta unless you are Indentured in the Trade as either an Apprentice, or a Journeyman.

                You Cannot Test and Work as a B-Pressure Welder in Alberta unless you PROVE Competency inline with the skills of an Alberta Journeyman... AND CWB Certs are Toilet Paper without an Apprenticeship - They DON'T MATTER.

                I have no comment on the AWS System - Americans don't appreciate me commenting on the U.S. System any more than I appreciate them commenting on the Canadian System.

                Agree to Disagree, Live and Let Live.
                Last edited by Black Wolf; 04-23-2011, 09:38 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Black Wolf View Post

                  Bottom Line - Those of us who HAVE an Alberta Journeyman Certificate in ANY Compulsory Trade recognize what it took to achieve it... And those of you who DON'T try to inflate your credentials and make yourselves believe that you are "The Same"



                  Agree to Disagree, Live and Let Live.
                  Again... it all revolves around Alberta as the elite training of welders in Canada.Get real, welders are brought to Alberta from other provinces and countries to do the work your workforce can't keep up with.The white hats and those who sign the cheques call the shots...not an apprenticeship program.Those outsiders must have a paper trail worthy of employment...regardless of where they got it. I can only imagine how high a pedestal you have your meat-cutting industry put on.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm not gonna waste the energy on you Reggie - You're NOT worth it.

                    What I WILL say is that there has to be SOMETHING about Alberta Welders, and Alberta Welding Jobs, since as you say we have people from all over the WORLD coming here....

                    ... And amazingly enough, ALL of them want to BE like US.

                    How many people want to be like YOU?

                    Have a Pleasant and Wonderful Easter Sunday Basking in your Unending Stupidity and Ignorance.

                    I'm done.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Black Wolf View Post

                      What I WILL say is that there has to be SOMETHING about Alberta Welders,

                      ... And amazingly enough, ALL of them want to BE like US.
                      Alberta has three traing blocks at 1500 hrs....total 4500hrs.Some provinces require 5400hrs.Also WELDING is a recognized trade in the REDSEAL (inter- provincal,apprenticeship training for Journeyperson) in all provinces...been so since 1979.
                      Last edited by reggie; 04-24-2011, 04:12 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Okay Reggie... This is the LAST response... And only because you're STUNNED, and also because it's Easter.

                        Only Alberta and B.C. List "Welder" as a Compulsory Trade, so they are the only 2 of all the Provinces/Territories that mandate the apprenticeship system, so for the intent and purpose of this discussion, they are the ONLY 2 that Matter. The other Provinces and Territories can list whatever "Requirements" that they like, but since the trade is Elective, no-one is forced to follow the Gov't outlines. These programs cost MONEY, and since the employers aren't required to follow the Apprenticeship System, they DON'T ...

                        And THAT is where all of the "Red Seal" Welders, and CWB Welders pop up from. It's a Cheap and easy way to give them a Title instead of an Education. Certify them just enough to do the job, and forget about the rest.

                        I don't care WHAT you think about the Interprovincial Red Seal Certification - Here in Alberta, once you have completed your training, and passed all of your Gov't required Testing, then you qualify to go for your Red Seal. It is a multiple choice exam, and isn't worth the paper it is written on. I am aware of how long it has been used, and I am telling you that it is total CRAP and isn't work a 2 licks on a Dead Dogs Ballz.

                        I am well aware of the different apprenticeship requirements - I have posted the links to the information over, and over, and OVER again...

                        Maybe you should try to read a little more, and post a little less. We'd all be the better for it.

                        Again, Have a Pleasant and Wonderful Easter Basking in your Unending Stupidity and Ignorance.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Black Wolf View Post
                          Okay Reggie... This is the LAST response... And only because you're STUNNED, Here in Alberta, once you have completed your training, and passed all of your Gov't required Testing, then you qualify to go for your Red Seal. It is a multiple choice exam, and isn't worth the paper it is written on. I am aware of how long it has been used, and I am telling you that it is total CRAP and isn't work a 2 licks on a Dead Dogs Ballz.

                          I am well aware of the different apprenticeship requirements
                          If so you would realize that this is a SYSTEM in place to try to uniform a COUNTRY of workers into a certain criteria.Why do you think if your from Alberta and they HAD a boom you are above other welders in skill level that worked next to you on same projects.The level of skill and qualifications got them the same job as YOU.Sounds like someone who was let go before outsiders or not called back before them.Maybe the work ethic and skills of outsiders exceeded what the Alberta system gave you.Schooling can only do so much,you sound like someone on the $hitty end ... and are using being a local Joe as job entitlement...

                          Comment

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