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  • some wiring and plug help.

    The shop where I work is moving. As part of the move we are looking to change all of our welders to the same plugs and input voltage. We have 1 - 251, 2 - 252's, 2 - syncrowave 200's, 1 - synchrowave 250, and 2 - 350p's.

    I would like them all to be running 480v single phase. My question is what plug should I use that would be durable, appropriate for the amp draw, and relatively inexpensive (as we have to purchase a few of them).

    also, what would the appropriate gauge wire be?

    thanks

  • #2
    Plugs and Wires

    You have to check all your machines to make sure they are 480 compatible to connect to that voltage, if not you can blow them all up.

    What I did with my dynasty 200 is wire the plug so it has common "hot" placements and then I can build pigtails to match the "hots" accordingly, but that welder is designed to change voltage and phase by itself.

    If you want them all to have a 480 plug, then you have to make sure that you wire all your outlets the same. I mean, red, white, and blacks all need to be in the same spots. Then wire the plug on the machine to only have the white and black (W & B are the hots for a standard 220 plug) wired to the plug. So your plug will have 4 prongs to it, but only 2 will be hot, 1 will be ground, 1 will be a dud. AGAIN!!! make sure everything is wired the same, outlets and plugs.
    Last edited by Country Metals; 03-28-2011, 08:27 AM. Reason: 480 not 460 duh....

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    • #3
      well, thank you very much.

      I have checked and all these machines are compatible with 480v single phase. I will be chasing all the wire (woo hoo sounds fun), so they will all definitely be run the same (black, red, white)

      Guess it is time to start sourcing 4 prong plugs.

      any other experience or input is welcome!

      Comment


      • #4
        Wires

        If all your machines are 480 compatible, then you don't have to run down wires. Since a hot is a hot, and a ground is a ground in this case (it does matter for 3 phase though). Hots, don't have to be in the same order, they just have to be wired right at the panel. But if you do want to use the style of 220 pigtails off a 480 line in the future like if you get a MM180 or such, then you want to check now to make sure all wires are wired the same. That way when you move the 220 welder to a different plug, you don't have to worry about if your wired up right.

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        • #5
          You're asking questions best left for a Sparky well worth the $ to hire one to set up the New Shop.

          1. The manuals have the Electrical service information

          easily found in the Resource section
          Ed Conley
          http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
          MM252
          MM211
          Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
          TA185
          Miller 125c Plasma 120v
          O/A set
          SO 2020 Bender
          You can call me Bacchus

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          • #6
            The shop where you work should know that the cost of an electrician is part of moving expenses and can be claimed on there taxes.

            Tell the owner to check with his tax prep person.

            It'll be done right
            Live Right Have Fun

            XMT350 CV/CC
            22A Feeder
            MM175
            Dynasty 200DX
            TB302
            12vs Extreme
            Hypertherm PowerMax 1000
            20" x 40" CNC Mills (2)
            16" x 60" engine lathe
            65 Ton edwards iron worker
            3/16' x 24" power slip roll
            16' power feed mitering bandsaw
            and other fun toys

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            • #7
              Thanks for the information.

              We will be doing the work ourselves due to time and work constraints. We want to have a minimum of down time. We are consolidating from our current sprawling cobbled together work space into our half used warehouse. While the guys are working, we will be running wire, argon lines, building racks and tables. When everything is ready for the move, we will call in the equipment movers to move the press brake, shear, and CNC tables over the weekend. While they are working we will move the air compressors, argon tanks and welders to their new home. The guys will be in on Monday and we will spend the rest of the week after hours buttoning up moving inventory, computers, and offices.

              In our building there are 3 options.
              1.do it yourself.
              2.pay the maintenance guys to do it on their obviously precious and expensive time.
              3.have an approved (read union) contractor do it. around us (rural pa) union guys are few and far between and they mostly work in Pittsburgh. getting them to travel out here is a pain and they don't want to work around the guys welding all day and they sure don't want to work after hours!

              Sometimes doing it yourself is better.

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              • #8
                While I might find some help for some areas I was weak on I can relate to doing your own move. Nice to learn correct way, easy to make changes as needed. As for the technical side, may be deep but in general if you are doubling the voltage a supply wire the same as the cord is fine.
                But,,,, personally unless there was a big technical reason to do so I would want to run at 240. There are some efficiency reasons to use hi voltage but they vary as to return. Are these running arc on 8 hrs a day, long electric runs? You already have this voltage available?

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                • #9
                  Timberfab,

                  Here is a link to Leviton's web site.

                  http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCC...minisite=10026

                  I have attached a small photo of the catalog which may be helpful.
                  The catalog is 40 Meg so it is too large to attach.

                  Starting at page 80 is a section which may be helpful.
                  I would caution you though as I am guessing these plugs are very expensive.

                  good luck,
                  Attached Files
                  Thermal Arc GTSW400, Airco Heliwelder II, Miller Dynasty 350, Hypertherm 1000, oxy-fuel setup, metal cutting bandsaw, air compressor, drill press, etc.:

                  Call me the "Clouseau" of welding !

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                  • #10
                    Connectors

                    By going to 480 volts you are probably lowering the price of the connector, by lowering the current. 100 amp connectors cost hundreds of dollars. But the popular NEMA 6-50 plug is only rated to 250 volts. Might be time to visit the local electrical supply store and see what they suggest. You need a 480V 50 amp connector, and that is not real common. Obviously you would be better off with a more or less standard connector instead of an orphan.

                    You might look at the Leviton CS816-4C, it is rated 50 amps and 480 volts. Or Hubble CS8465C or Hubbell CS8169. There is a connector used for big generators, I forget the CS number.

                    You should double check that all machines will run on single phase 480, and the current draw, but I think that 50 amps will work for 480. Welders have some exceptions in the National electrical code anyway, so peak current can exceed the rating, since welders are intermittent use items, usually limited by duty cycle.

                    Nope, I am not an electrician, but I do get involved with large generators.

                    Richard
                    Syncrowave 200, Millermatic 211, Victor torch, Propane forge....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Never heard of 480V Single Phase Power

                      Anything and everything I have ever seen that had a nameplate voltage over 230V (240V) has been THREE PHASE. Also, when you do a Google Search for NEMA Plugs and Receptacles, anything I have found that was 460V (480V) again was three phase. Three phase and single phase are not compatible. Granted some of the welders in question show mulitple voltages available they also are offered as single phase and three phase units. I could look up what NEMA connectors would do what you are wanting to do, but it sounds like an Electrician with Industrial Experience is needed for consultation or one of your "Overpaid and overworked" maintenace men from your company to take care of this. Electricity demands respect, do the safe thing and get someone who knows what they are doing to do this work.
                      '77 Miller Bluestar 2E on current service truck
                      '99 Miller Bobcat 225NT for New Service Truck
                      '85 Millermatic 200 in Shop

                      '72 Marquete 295 AC cracker box in Shop
                      '07 Hypertherm Powermax 1000 G3 Plasma Cutter in Shop
                      Miller Elite and Digital Elite Hoods

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by flukecej View Post
                        Anything and everything I have ever seen that had a nameplate voltage over 230V (240V) has been THREE PHASE. Also, when you do a Google Search for NEMA Plugs and Receptacles, anything I have found that was 460V (480V) again was three phase. Three phase and single phase are not compatible. Granted some of the welders in question show mulitple voltages available they also are offered as single phase and three phase units. I could look up what NEMA connectors would do what you are wanting to do, but it sounds like an Electrician with Industrial Experience is needed for consultation or one of your "Overpaid and overworked" maintenace men from your company to take care of this. Electricity demands respect, do the safe thing and get someone who knows what they are doing to do this work.
                        480 three (3) phase minus one (1) wire = 480 single phase.

                        Griff

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                        • #13
                          3 phase vs 1 phase

                          The main difference between one and three phase is the electric coming into the building. You can have 480 and not have 3 phase. It is not that common but I have seen it. You can have 575 and still be single phase. Single phase is determined by having 1 steady stream of hots running into the machine. 3 phase has 2-5 hots that are in sequence to always be on a high end of the electrical wave length. 3 phase is always cheaper for the useage, but it costs more to put in.

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                          • #14
                            Must agree...

                            An electrician familiar with what you are wanting to do is your best bet. I know it is always a money thing, but... I prefer Hubell connectors and the appropriate sized SO cable.

                            Just a reminder: Make sure your welding machines are wired correctly ---INTERNALLY WIRED--- to accept 480 single phase power.

                            Good Luck HAWK

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The welder that will draw the most amps is your 250 Sync at 47 amps and 460/480v.
                              A NEMA L8-50 will handle that action and will be over kill for the other welders.
                              The NEMA L8-30 will be light on the Sync and good on the others.
                              How many people run their Sync on a NEMA 6-50. I did.
                              I have the same problem half of my equip. uses a NEMA L15-30 and the rest uses a NEMA 15-60. There is never enough and there in the wrong places.
                              Good Luck,
                              Bob
                              Millermatic 252 w/30A
                              Big Blue Air Pak
                              Ellis 3000 Band Saw
                              Trailblazer 302 Air Pak w/ Wireless Remote
                              8-RC
                              Dynasty 200 DX
                              XMT 350 MPa w/S-74 MPa Plus
                              Millermatic 211
                              Passport Plus
                              Spectrum 625 X-TREME
                              Lincoln SA-200 Blue Tint Red Face '63
                              2-Lincoln SA-200 Red Face '68
                              SA-200 Black Face '59
                              SA-200 Green Lite '84
                              SA-200 Green Lite '80
                              SA-200 Red Face '69
                              SA-200 Red Face '66
                              SA-200 Green Lite '81
                              '70 Black Face Round Barrel

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