Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Silicon Bronze Food Safe?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Silicon Bronze Food Safe?

    OK, I've asked on here a few times about welding Copper to Stainless. I've been told that Silicon Bronze will work. So a couple of questions.

    1. Is it food safe, and if it is please direct me to where an MSDS says so.
    2. Can I MIG weld Copper to Stainless using Silicon Bronze MIG Wire?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    I pretty sure silicon bronze is a pour choice, The silicon bronze will stick to the copper just fine but not to the stainless.

    20 plus years ago I used my oxy/ acyt. torch to braze some stainless to stainless and the stainless welded okay at first and then it just popped away.

    Silver solder with a 45% silver content is what I use to join the 2 together, There are at least 2 types of flux to use, you want to get high temp flux because the silver melts at a higher temputure.

    I'm not sure if silver solder would be considered food grade or not.

    Comment


    • #3
      From the Food Code 2009>FDA Food Code 2009 Chapter 4

      4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.
      (A) Except as specified in (B) of this section, copper and copper alloys such as brass may not be used in contact with a food that has a pH below 6 such as vinegar, fruit juice, or wine or for a fitting or tubing installed between a backflow prevention device and a carbonator. P
      (B) Copper and copper alloys may be used in contact with beer brewing ingredients that have a pH below 6 in the prefermentation and fermentation steps of a beer brewing operation such as a brewpub or microbrewery.

      Comment


      • #4
        Silicon Bronze and Stainless NSF/ANSI 61 for Drinking Water

        NSF/ANSI Standard 61 Drinking Water System Components - Health Effects is the standard that establishes minimum health effects requirements for materials, components, products, or systems that contact drinking water, drinking water treatment chemicals, or both.
        Most Silicon Bronze and Stainless Steel products that meet this standard are mechanically joined. I have only seen stainless materials welded, bronze products were always machined.
        Food Grade Materials would have the approriate NSF/FDA label attached.
        Copper and Stainless are used in manufacturing of food grade products, but silicon bronze is only used in water related components, like your water pump and spigots.
        The silicon in the silicon bronze is there to replace lead that used to be used in bronze products.
        Sounds like you need to Google some NSF and FDA standard on acceptable food grade metal materials and recommended joining practices. I think you may also find that the MIG process is not used in the making of components and items that come into contact with food.
        '77 Miller Bluestar 2E on current service truck
        '99 Miller Bobcat 225NT for New Service Truck
        '85 Millermatic 200 in Shop

        '72 Marquete 295 AC cracker box in Shop
        '07 Hypertherm Powermax 1000 G3 Plasma Cutter in Shop
        Miller Elite and Digital Elite Hoods

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dipsomaniac View Post
          4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.
          (A) Except as specified in (B) of this section, copper and copper alloys such as brass may not be used in contact with a food that has a pH below 6 such as vinegar, fruit juice, or wine or for a fitting or tubing installed between a backflow prevention device and a carbonator. P
          (B) Copper and copper alloys may be used in contact with beer brewing ingredients that have a pH below 6 in the prefermentation and fermentation steps of a beer brewing operation such as a brewpub or microbrewery.


          Yeah they dont use brass in microbreweries either, because lead is in brass for machinability and leaches into the beer. Brewing and fermenting in copper pots can be a health hazard, this is the reason microbreweries use stainless, and just copper clad the outside of the brew kettle and fermentation vessels for looks, as well as to seal in the glycol piping. Just thought Id throw that out their.
          If you want peace, be prepared for war!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by usmcruz View Post
            Yeah they dont use brass in microbreweries either, because lead is in brass for machinability and leaches into the beer. Brewing and fermenting in copper pots can be a health hazard, this is the reason microbreweries use stainless, and just copper clad the outside of the brew kettle and fermentation vessels for looks, as well as to seal in the glycol piping. Just thought Id throw that out their.

            Lead is strictly ***** when it comes to food or drink...

            Comment


            • #7
              Ok, I appreciate the information, but I've been searching for answers for a long while and now I'm back to square one. Let's start over.

              I need to weld a stainless steel flange to a piece of 8" Copper Tubing. It is a STILL, YES I HAVE A DSP (Distillery Plant Permit) I am a legit Distillery. So it needs to be food safe for this kind of environment. Please help.

              I' using a Miller Dialarc Tig Welder 310 Amps, Water Cooled Torch and a 3/32 Electrode. How should I weld these? Although I'm a good welder my Tig is rather old. I do have access to a modern Tig with all the bells and whistles but it only goes to 210 Amps, but if some of the special features makes copper welding easier then that's an option.

              Thanks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Silver solder.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No MSDS is going to have a statement like "this is safe" let alone "this is food safe" anywhere on it. Besides the fact that food safe is a terriby huge category. Are you boiling spuds or soaking olives in lye?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No, no spuds or olives. Just ethanol vapor. So what should I use.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cartierusm View Post
                      No, no spuds or olives. Just ethanol vapor. So what should I use.

                      Welding dissimilar metals as a rule is typically not a wise thing to do because of the electrode potential difference between the two metals. Believe it or not the Stainless Steel will begin to pit because it has a more negative potential than copper. I know that there are non-conductive compression fittings for such things but they do have limits on pressure and temperature. Also, what is preventing you from using stainless steel tubing instead of copper? If you use the same material, you will find that welding them will be easy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is a link to a company that makes an 8 inch tri-clover clamping system

                        http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=C...opper%20tubing

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dipsomaniac View Post
                          Here is a link to a company that makes an 8 inch tri-clover clamping system

                          http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=C...opper%20tubing

                          I love them tri-clover fittings. I had them on my home microbrewery system, and cleaning was a snap.
                          If you want peace, be prepared for war!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As far as joining joining the copper to stainless like I said in my earlier post Silver solder with oxy / acytelene torch is how to do it so dont worry about the tig.

                            Back in the summer I had a guy bring me a stainless flange and a copper pipe for a still he was building.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by usmcruz View Post
                              I love them tri-clover fittings. I had them on my home microbrewery system, and cleaning was a snap.

                              Hey, I figured someone would have a brewing example for tri-clover fittings. I've seen them used on a dairy farm and an exhaust system for an indoor woodmizer sawmill...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X