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  • #16
    question

    hey tryagn5....what do mean by fish plate the cracks??? never heard this term before

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    • #17
      Originally posted by seven 13 View Post
      hey tryagn5....what do mean by fish plate the cracks??? never heard this term before
      Hello;

      I havn't heard the term in some time, but I think he means to weld a plate Over the welded-up crack !
      Vee it out weld it , grind the weld flush then weld a plate Over the Area on One or Both sides !

      ............ Norm
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      • #18
        I personally donít believe in fish plating! Never seen it speced on anything Iíve built. But then again I donít work on car frames, here is a nice read on chassis repair.

        Another thought on fish plating, Iíve welded gussets in beams until the cows came home, but never ever fish plated a beam splice. Also never seen a pipe weldor fish plate a weld on a pipe either!

        http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa..._COP_sec_2.pdf
        Caution!
        These are "my" views based only on ďmyĒ experiences in ďmyĒ little bitty world.

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        • #19
          Equipment...

          Originally posted by Sonora Iron View Post
          I personally donít believe in fish plating! Never seen it speced on anything Iíve built. But then again I donít work on car frames, here is a nice read on chassis repair.

          Another thought on fish plating, Iíve welded gussets in beams until the cows came home, but never ever fish plated a beam splice. Also never seen a pipe weldor fish plate a weld on a pipe either!

          http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa..._COP_sec_2.pdf
          Sonora-
          Im not sure your field of welding but once you get into truck frames, or machinery fish plating is very common, and required! Normally the reason frames fail is due to metal fatigue, repairing a crack only pushes the crack to the outside of the weld. Cutting large sections of frames out, is not only not partical, but heavily frowned upon. Many times I will use a fishplate to isolate a crossmemeber previously welded to the frame. Or use it to strengthen a boom in a weak are...Ie cylinder mount, or pivot. The trick to any fishplate is placement of the welds, as with plug welding the fishplate...Ie cutting small circles from the plate, then welding the fishplate to the baseplate through the circles. The basic idea is to keep the fishplate from flexing away from the base plate.
          Kevin
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          • #20
            all the frame repairs and splices i have ever done are engineered with fish plates but instead of plug welds they are drilled and bolted ( can also be welded but most of the time bolted) my drawing is crappy but give you an idea what a fish plate can look like.
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            • #21
              Originally posted by Tryagn5 View Post
              Sonora-
              Im not sure your field of welding
              Mostly structural, but with quite a bit of general fab thrown in the mix.
              Ií am aware of fish plating in the auto / truck / trailer repair industry, like I said I donít do much of that work. I can count the times Iíve welded on frames with one hand, and have fingers left over. Most of the fish plates Iíve seen are diamond, or oval shaped, seems as 90į angles are avoided.

              Caution!
              These are "my" views based only on ďmyĒ experiences in ďmyĒ little bitty world.

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              • #22
                Depending on what type of trailer, and the manufacturer, you could be dealing with a little more than mild steel.

                Without knowing the particulars, my suggestion would be to grind out all of the 6011 and use 7018.
                As said before, fill one side then backgouge to get full pen.

                Also, with a fishplate, you need it to be able to flex to a certain degree, or all you did was move the crack to another location.

                FWIW I was told they call it a fishplate because it is shaped like a fish...
                Jeff

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                • #23
                  Hows the Work?

                  Originally posted by Sonora Iron View Post
                  Mostly structural, but with quite a bit of general fab thrown in the mix.
                  Ií am aware of fish plating in the auto / truck / trailer repair industry, like I said I donít do much of that work. I can count the times Iíve welded on frames with one hand, and have fingers left over. Most of the fish plates Iíve seen are diamond, or oval shaped, seems as 90į angles are avoided.

                  My dad is a local 63 ironworker, has been traveling the country for work(runs large jobs) However work is slow for him now, He has one large job left then hes retiring. Before this economy crash, his company had 250 million of work, now they have 25!!!
                  Kevin
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tryagn5 View Post
                    Sonora-
                    Im not sure your field of welding but once you get into truck frames, or machinery fish plating is very common, and required! Normally the reason frames fail is due to metal fatigue, repairing a crack only pushes the crack to the outside of the weld. Cutting large sections of frames out, is not only not partical, but heavily frowned upon. Many times I will use a fishplate to isolate a crossmemeber previously welded to the frame. Or use it to strengthen a boom in a weak are...Ie cylinder mount, or pivot. The trick to any fishplate is placement of the welds, as with plug welding the fishplate...Ie cutting small circles from the plate, then welding the fishplate to the baseplate through the circles. The basic idea is to keep the fishplate from flexing away from the base plate.
                    Kevin

                    I work in the minning and logging industries and I have fishplated many of times. The rule of thumb is; the fishplate you're using has to be of the same type of metal and of the same thickness or less. No sharp 90degrees corners should be welded, most of the time mine are in some sort of diamond shapes with running the weld out of the plate before the point towards the outside passed the plate for 2 to 3 inches.

                    If I'm making any sense I could show some pics if you need.
                    PS: Almost forget, pre and post heat is very important
                    Hope this help
                    Dan

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                    • #25
                      Why not just weld the frame as suggested and then box the frame. Like instead of having C channel you now have tube. Offroaders do it all the time

                      Oh and what ever happened to the old wives tail about never welding on a auto frame?? I guess that was to keep the novice out of hot water
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                      • #26
                        Norm,

                        "Never heard of a fishplate".

                        Sounds like a comment from newbie with a 120v mig in the garage, not someone who professes to be "a 30 year ironworker".

                        I think that if didn't know what a fish plate was, I'd do a google search, rather than telling the whole world how limited my experience had been.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by kcstott View Post
                          Why not just weld the frame as suggested and then box the frame. Like instead of having C channel you now have tube. Offroaders do it all the time
                          That's how I fixed the frame on my old Chevy 4x4 that cracked in the usual location: around the steering gear box.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
                            Norm,

                            "Never heard of a fishplate".

                            Sounds like a comment from newbie with a 120v mig in the garage, not someone who professes to be "a 30 year ironworker".

                            I think that if didn't know what a fish plate was, I'd do a google search, rather than telling the whole world how limited my experience had been.
                            I really wish you two guys would quite needling eachother.
                            Millermatic350P/Python, MillermaticReach/Q300
                            Millermatic175
                            MillermaticPassport/Q300
                            HTP MIG200
                            PowCon 300SM, MK Cobramatic
                            ThermalArc 185ACDC, Dynaflux Tig'r, CK-20
                            DialarcHF, Radiator-1
                            Hypertherm PowerMax 380
                            Purox oxy/ace
                            Jackson EQC
                            -F350 CrewCab 4x4
                            -LoadNGo utility bed
                            -Bobcat 250NT
                            -PassportPlus/Q300
                            -XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic15A
                            -Suitcase8RC/Q400
                            -Suitcase12RC/Q300
                            -Smith oxy/propane
                            -Jackson EQC

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                            • #29
                              Desert;
                              I'm Not Needling Anyone !!
                              sigpic
                              Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

                              - Arcair- K 4000 CAC.

                              - LN-25 Wire Feeder

                              - Lincoln Ranger 8- Engine Drive- CC\CV:



                              - Lincoln Power Mig 180C
                              - Spoolgun.
                              - DeWalt Chop Saw .
                              - DeWalt Compressor - 13cfm, @ 100 psi.

                              www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

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                              • #30
                                nothing newbee about fish plate or camels too

                                i think different parts of the united states use different terms for the same thing, in new england fish plate is a term all welders would understand, when notching pipe for fit-up is sometimes called cutting camels,

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