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  • vertical up help

    How's it going out there, i'm a newbe member and i was wondering if someone could help me with my vertical up welding, i'm using a 170 amp inverter stick welder with 3.2mm all position rods at 110 amps on 10mm plate and just can't get it happening ,it's all sages and lumps, has someone out there got a good simple way to help me get it right, i thankyou for any help..Andy. ps theres not much in the way of welding forums in australia glad i found this one........
    Last edited by midseries; 04-10-2009, 04:02 AM. Reason: missed word

  • #2
    will it weld good flat horizontal position? are you going uphill or downhill? are you keeping the rod pushed in tight into the weld? have you tryed lowering the temperature?

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    • #3
      vertical up

      i'm going uphill mate, using 6013 rods...........

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      • #4
        I used 6010 or 6011 for vertical up or in the old days, Lincoln 5P. Vertical up is a series of downhill welds done in an N configuration or a U configuration. I was never good with 7018 vertical, which is what a lot of guys use for a cap.
        It takes a lot of practice to get good at it. Get the puddle going but not too hot then whip the rod up to let it cool a bit then down to the puddle again for a second then up again and let it cool a bit while working the puddle in an upward direction.
        I learned by watching a tank fitter run them when I was a starting out.

        There is no substitute for a lot of practice!! This will cause you to develop a "feel" for it, then it gets much easier.
        The rod size helps too, if the material is thinner use a smaller rod size, the 6010 - 11 has a fast freeze puddle that helps in vertical.

        I liked the 3/32 rod for smaller pipes, (2" and down).
        I hope some of this helps you, I am no expert thats for sure........

        mike sr
        mike sr

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        • #5
          from one newbie to another:
          hold rod almost perpendicular but angled slightly up 10-15 degrees roughly to the plate. 110A sounds a bit high for a 3/32" rod and too low for a 1/8" rod, if it seems too hot and liquidy bring the heat down to 90A. If it just builds and builds weld and looks like crap try closer to 140A I'm not sure the size of a 3.2mm rod. Use a circular motion as you travel up the plate and watch below the puddle. You will notice the undercut you are creating from side to side from the arc and you will also notice how gravity pulls your puddle down to fill in the undercut. Play with the machine settings you will find that your puddle will become very easy to manipulate and just practise with it. hope this helps, good luck
          Last edited by stevo1988; 04-10-2009, 02:23 PM.

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          • #6
            Metric Mate"

            Actually, 110 amps isn't out of the ordinary for a 3.2mm (1/8") 6013, in fact, it's on the "low" end of both AC & DC.

            10 mm plate = .03937" or 25/64" ( a real thick 3/8").

            1.) 6013's are not a deep penetrating rod. Not really designed for vertical up grooves, as it has a rutile-potassium flux. Vertical up fillets, okay, & vertical down grooves.

            2.) your joint(s) should be beveled

            3.) Try a 3.2mm 6011 rod @ 90 amps until you get the hang of it. You can practice both vertical up & down.

            4.) gradually work your way to 90 degrees in progression. flat, 30, 45, 60, then 90, then over to 120 for a little overhead practice.

            5.) When you master that, than you can graduate to 7018's

            Hope this helps

            Dave
            Last edited by davedarragh; 04-10-2009, 03:19 PM.
            "Bonne journe'e mes amis"

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            • #7
              Use a 7018 rod

              I would highly recommend using a 7018 rod-2 reasons 7018 is an easier rod to weld with, Also it produces a stronger weld. The easiet way to learn vertical up is to take plates and practice with the plates at 20 degrees, then 40 degrees and so on until the plate is vertical up. Also as as u weld do little circle in counterclock wise motion and point the rod up at about 15 degrees. If you are doing multiple passes with 7018 be sure to remove flux after each pass. Also use a 3/32 rod between 90-110 amps, set the welder at DC+
              Lincoln ranger 305g x2
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              • #8
                vertical up help

                Thanks to all who took the time to answer my post, i now have a some good ideas to try out, i will spend some practice time at home before i go back to the job, thanks again Andy........

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                • #9
                  "Verticals, Down Under"

                  Hey Andy, what's the time difference? It's 20:20 hrs here in Phoenix.

                  Got to get used to "mm" myself. I remember when they poured a lot of freeway work in "Metric Yards." Talk about fits with forms, re-bar, constantly looking through conversion tables. The batch plants had to load special software to calibrate the "weigh hoppers" for metric yards.

                  Actually, the proper vernacular is "Cubic Meters."

                  Aye, mate!

                  Let us know of your progress.

                  Dave

                  Now it's almost 20:30 hrs MST (we don't change to DST in Az, only the Navajo Nation in NE Az does)
                  "Bonne journe'e mes amis"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by popspipes View Post
                    Vertical up is a series of downhill welds done in an N configuration or a U configuration.

                    I'm not late...
                    I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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                    • #11
                      Dang I have run a lot of Vertical up and I am not sure I can do that??? do you stand on your head or just put your hood on backwards?? (just kidding) but I do want to see that technique.

                      Tim
                      sigpicRetired Elevator Consrtructor Local 19 IUEC
                      AK bush pilot (no longer in AK) too old and no longer bold)
                      Chaplain CMA chapter 26
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                      Miller 140 mig 110v
                      Vtwin builder

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                      • #12
                        Vertical - Up Welds !

                        Originally posted by davedarragh View Post
                        Actually, 110 amps isn't out of the ordinary for a 3.2mm (1/8") 6013, in fact, it's on the "low" end of both AC & DC.

                        10 mm plate = .03937" or 25/64" ( a real thick 3/8").

                        1.) 6013's are not a deep penetrating rod. Not really designed for vertical up grooves, as it has a rutile-potassium flux. Vertical up fillets, okay, & vertical down grooves.

                        2.) your joint(s) should be beveled

                        3.) Try a 3.2mm 6011 rod @ 90 amps until you get the hang of it. You can practice both vertical up & down.

                        4.) gradually work your way to 90 degrees in progression. flat, 30, 45, 60, then 90, then over to 120 for a little overhead practice.

                        5.) When you master that, than you can graduate to 7018's

                        Hope this helps

                        Dave
                        Hi Dave;

                        Very Well Put !!
                        Ver Well Explained !!
                        Dave with your exellent comunication Skills, Welding Knowledge, have you ever thought about being a Community College Teacher ?

                        No Kiddin' Around Man You Would Be A Great Teacher !

                        Dave on a side note, when you wrote it was 20:30 Hrs. my computer says
                        23:30 Hrs. EDT. , are you on PST. ??

                        Your Canadian Friend, ......... Norm
                        sigpic
                        Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

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                        - Lincoln Ranger 8- Engine Drive- CC\CV:



                        - Lincoln Power Mig 180C
                        - Spoolgun.
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                        - DeWalt Compressor - 13cfm, @ 100 psi.

                        www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

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                        • #13
                          time

                          Ok dave you posted at 1:28pm my time today 20;20 your time witch was 7:20pm my time so your about 6 hours ahead, by the way thanks for your help mate. Andy

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                          • #14
                            MST = PDT = What Time Is It?

                            Originally posted by nfinch86 View Post
                            Hi Dave;

                            Very Well Put !!
                            Ver Well Explained !!
                            Dave with your exellent comunication Skills, Welding Knowledge, have you ever thought about being a Community College Teacher ?

                            No Kiddin' Around Man You Would Be A Great Teacher !

                            Dave on a side note, when you wrote it was 20:30 Hrs. my computer says
                            23:30 Hrs. EDT. , are you on PST. ??

                            Your Canadian Friend, ......... Norm
                            Norm: Thank you for the kind words, maybe something I should consider when I retire? (What's that?)

                            Actually, Arizona does not change to "Daylight Saving Time" in the summer. Only the Northeast portion of the State, which is the "Navajo Nation," and Soveriegn Tribal land overlapping the "4 Corners" region changes time. So, in the Summer, we are the same as LA and Las Vegas, and in the winter, we are the same as Phoenix, wait, we are Phoenix!

                            I have a bastian of atomic clocks and weather instruments that need reset every spring and fall, as most of them do not recognize Arizona's Summer Time. (Basically Hot)

                            Isn't New Foundland or Nova Scotia 1/2 hour different from the Atlantic Time Zone? Now that, would really take some getting used to.

                            Dave
                            Last edited by davedarragh; 04-11-2009, 02:01 PM.
                            "Bonne journe'e mes amis"

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                            • #15
                              "Time After Time"

                              Originally posted by midseries View Post
                              Ok dave you posted at 1:28pm my time today 20;20 your time witch was 7:20pm my time so your about 6 hours ahead, by the way thanks for your help mate. Andy
                              Wasn't sure of the difference, didn't want to wake you up typing

                              Actually, I've always wanted to visit your Country, some day. The many species of marsupials are unique to your land as Cacti are to Arizona.

                              Glad we could help you.

                              Keep us posted.

                              Dave
                              "Bonne journe'e mes amis"

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