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Argon CO2 mix OR Co2 for Mig welding

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  • Argon CO2 mix OR Co2 for Mig welding

    I'm sure this has been covered but I just got a MM211 and would like to know what everyone is using, staight CO2 or mix? Or should you have both I'll be welding 1/8 to 5/16 material.

  • #2
    C-25, 75AR and 25CO2, is what you will get the best results from.
    Don


    '06 Trailblazer 302
    '06 12RC feeder
    Super S-32P feeder

    HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
    Esab Multimaster 260
    Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

    Comment


    • #3
      I use both 75/25 and CO2. The CO2 is cheaper so i use it when i am welding outside on the bigger projects because i can crank up the gas a little more. The 75/25 does make a nicer weld....Bob
      Bob Wright

      Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
      http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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      • #4
        75/25 hands down.
        If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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        • #5
          Pro's and con's for both 75/25 still wont get you into spray arc so why spend the money?

          75/25 will save time with cleanup and will produce less fumes, but costs way more.

          Most of life and welding is nothing but a bunch of compromises and no one answer fits all situations. Use what you like and what makes the soundest weld for the given project.

          In time you might find yourself like most of us with several cylinders of gas all with different product in them. Today I have 13 cylinders ranging in size from 12oz to 300+ cf and 6 different gasses.

          Be weary of definitive answers about welding.

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          • #6
            FATFAB is right on again about difinitive answers in welding. There are just so many variables that concepts are taken and proven in specific circumstances. That is basically the whole motivation behind procedure qualifications to the codes.

            Read this thread and grab what you can about gases from my post there. If you get stuck then send me a private message and we can get together on the phone.

            http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ad.php?t=16106

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            • #7
              I learned MIG on-the-job while I was working as an apprentice mechanic. We had a 250 amp machine and used it mainly for exhaust work and general repairs. Our shop manager only bought C25, so that was all I ever used.

              A few years ago I went to test for a job as a MIG welder and the employer wanted a vertical up on some scraps of 16 ga tubing.

              Looked easy, but I burned through after about 1".
              That was my first experience with 100% CO2 and I was completely unprepared for it. I learned a valuable lesson though - ALWAYS check the label on the gas cylinder before you use somebody elses equipment so you know what to expect.

              Pro - CO2 is cheaper than C25 if you only consider the cost of gas.
              Con - It's a messier (nozzles and tips have to be cleaned/replaced more often which negates some of the savings of cheaper gas)
              Pro or Con depending on the job - It welds noticeably hotter than C25

              As mentioned already, There's other mixes necessary for spray transfer - One does not fit all.
              Last edited by MR.57; 02-13-2009, 08:27 AM.
              2007 Miller Dynasty 200 DX
              2005 Miller Passport 180

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              • #8
                Guys, why are we even talking about spray transfer? He said he has a MM211. Spray will not be an issue. Unless Miller radically altered the guts from the HH210 type guts, spray is really not even possible. That type of unit is optimized to work with .030 and C-25. That is why a definitive answer was given. For a larger 210 class or a 250 class, a gas discussion may be in order, but not with a MM211. You either have to read what the OP writes or actually know something about the machine before you start smacking down definitive answers. While that unit will work with CO2, it will work BETTER on C-25, for which it was optimized.
                Don


                '06 Trailblazer 302
                '06 12RC feeder
                Super S-32P feeder

                HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
                Esab Multimaster 260
                Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why limit yourself with one bottle. What I would do is start off with 75/25. Once you use it for a while rent a co2 bottle and weld the same material with 100% co2. Then if you like using the co2 only on particular wires or material thicknesses buy a bottle of co2. The 75/25 would be a good general gas for a first bottle, and there are several good solid and flux cored wires that work for it, but there are some that only like co2 that I run frequently.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DDA52 View Post
                    Guys, why are we even talking about spray transfer? He said he has a MM211. Spray will not be an issue. Unless Miller radically altered the guts from the HH210 type guts, spray is really not even possible. That type of unit is optimized to work with .030 and C-25. That is why a definitive answer was given. For a larger 210 class or a 250 class, a gas discussion may be in order, but not with a MM211. You either have to read what the OP writes or actually know something about the machine before you start smacking down definitive answers. While that unit will work with CO2, it will work BETTER on C-25, for which it was optimized.
                    Don, your exactly right. the machine is rate 150 amps 30%duty cycle. It can reach the spray range but just barely and it is going to hit it's duty cycle very quickly and stop working while it cools down. It seems to be a short circuit machine. It is easy to get caught up in power on the machines I work with and forget that there is a whole other world out there where smaller machines live.

                    For the difinitive answer comment, I will stick by it, there are usually many ways to get the same outcome. Even on something as simple as short circuit welding. One way I agree is 75/25 mixed gas

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DDA52 View Post
                      Guys, why are we even talking about spray transfer? He said he has a MM211. Spray will not be an issue. Unless Miller radically altered the guts from the HH210 type guts, spray is really not even possible. That type of unit is optimized to work with .030 and C-25. That is why a definitive answer was given. For a larger 210 class or a 250 class, a gas discussion may be in order, but not with a MM211. You either have to read what the OP writes or actually know something about the machine before you start smacking down definitive answers. While that unit will work with CO2, it will work BETTER on C-25, for which it was optimized.
                      No one was smacking down any body here just offering opinion. That the opinion differs is not a smack down.

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                      • #12
                        Didn't mean it that way TJ. I just meant that the spray question is pretty moot with this unit. It will spray with .023, but barely. Spray really isn't an issue...just short circuit. Since that unit is optimized for C-25, he will get his best results from using C-25.
                        Don


                        '06 Trailblazer 302
                        '06 12RC feeder
                        Super S-32P feeder

                        HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
                        Esab Multimaster 260
                        Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DDA52 View Post
                          Didn't mean it that way TJ. I just meant that the spray question is pretty moot with this unit. It will spray with .023, but barely. Spray really isn't an issue...just short circuit. Since that unit is optimized for C-25, he will get his best results from using C-25.
                          I have never even seen a MM210 or MM211 (or if I did I didn't know it) I didn't know about the Passport being tuned for Co2 until KB Fab mentioned it.

                          I learned GMAW on a Miller 35 (I think) The newest dedicated wire feeders I have used are LN25's and suitcase millers both VS unit then the Passport.
                          So the thought that a machine would be tuned for a single gas mix was (is) foreign to me.

                          When someone else (employer) is buying the gas I always "needed" 75/25 or better when I'm buying it now co2 is just fine

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                          • #14
                            Every MM35 I used worked like crap on C-25....since they were made to run on Co2.
                            Don


                            '06 Trailblazer 302
                            '06 12RC feeder
                            Super S-32P feeder

                            HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
                            Esab Multimaster 260
                            Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DDA52 View Post
                              Every MM35 I used worked like crap on C-25....since they were made to run on Co2.
                              You make a broad statement, but anecdotal evidence and rolling your eyes doesn't explain anything. I don't see how a MIG welder can be "made to be run" on one particular gas. A gas solenoid doesn't particularly care what gas you put through it. Volts are volts, inductance is inductance, wire diameter is wire diameter, and wire speed is wire speed.

                              My 22 year old MM200 doesn't have anything regarding argon mixes on the inside cover chart or OM - all reference literature refers to use with straight CO2. I can confirm firsthand that machine welds better with C25.
                              2007 Miller Dynasty 200 DX
                              2005 Miller Passport 180

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