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  • Whate Kind of Bolt is this?

    I have used just about every grade of bolt over the years, as I am sure most of you have too.
    I had to special order these bolts from Toyota for my front torsion bars, grade 8 bolts were not strong enough! (Tried the Cheep method first).

    They have the rounded over corners and 3 dashes in a Y pattern that would point to a Grade 5 bolt, and are fine thread metric, but there is also a raised dot that I can't find a listing for?
    Here is the picture, can anybody tell me what kind of "Super" Bolts these are?



    Thanks!
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  • #2
    nfinch86- Canadian Weldor :

    Originally posted by pfitz View Post
    I have used just about every grade of bolt over the years, as I am sure most of you have too.
    I had to special order these bolts from Toyota for my front torsion bars, grade 8 bolts were not strong enough! (Tried the Cheep method first).

    They have the rounded over corners and 3 dashes in a Y pattern that would point to a Grade 5 bolt, and are fine thread metric, but there is also a raised dot that I can't find a listing for?
    Here is the picture, can anybody tell me what kind of "Super" Bolts these are?



    Thanks!
    pfitz Hi; I'm Not Trying to be Funny, TOYOTA-YES? Maybe there Japanese??? I'm Just Guessing !..... Norm :
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    • #3
      I checked?

      I checked at least 10 web paged devoted to Bolt Grade Identification, under every "Standard" I could find. I even went at it from an Asian angle.

      I just can't figure out why these bolts hold and last? With a Grade 8 fine thread metric bolt the exact same size, as soon as the weight came down on the suspension they broke off where the threads start?
      We had to cut them off my truck, a power bar and 3' of pipe we could turn them with allot of effort 1/4 turn at a time....Most bolts would break under this stress??

      I Don't Know?????LOL
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      • #4
        Have you used a thread pitch guage to see what the pitch would be? Or do you already know the size & pitch, just wondering the bolt grade?

        I've been building import cars for years now (almost 10 for money some as a mech-a-neck some of it just out of the small space i had rented over time with my painting and in another budy's shop on collaborative efforts and the one thing that keeps popping out in my mind is that those are flywheel bolts. I'm going to go dig up an "old-school" crank and check the OEM bolts for the Flywheel.

        If that's in fact true, flex-plates for auto on Toyota is 8.8 (higher on flywheel manual trans)but not sure about the dot. Gonna go dig and report back.


        Well, after checking around the basement and garage i found only one bolt that matched up with that dot, it either donates that it is or is not torque to yield if my memory serves (sometimes it doesn't) Funy thing is, factory main journal bolts on mitsu 4g63 motors are known to go beyond 450-500 horses without letting go, and usually it's a rod and not a main that goes on them at those pressures and they are grade 10

        Sorry i have no definite answer, but I'm intrigues now and will help you in your quest LOL :P



        spare engine in the basement with eagle rods, ARP everything, ported head and a nice set of cam's just needing final touches on machining that will be needed to fine tune the clearances during boring the cylinders for the pistons and final assembly I just can't afford the pistons i want right now so I'm limping a badly hurt motor, hoping a rod don't come through the block so i can make sure i always have a back up.

        The motor did a best dyno pull on a dynojet this late summer/fall and did 431hp & 392lb/ft. As soon as i was making great power a blocked storm drain and traffic forced me through a good foot and a half of water and she locked up tight, pulled almost 2 gallons out between the inter-cooler, intake manifold and by measuring the "special chocolate milk mix racing oil i had made that day" LOL rounded off turbo blades, Aftermarket engine knock monitor showing that cylinder # 3 is making a lot of noise above 4500 RPM and above 15 psi. And you cannot combine the 15psi and 4500 rpm or it pulls a TON of timing on all cylinders and basically shuts the motor down, but this is what the box is designed to do. okay, done rambling car stuff... i'm a gearhead till the end
        Last edited by turboglenn; 11-14-2008, 12:53 AM.
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        • #5
          This marking method is a toyota thing, per the torque spec page in my toy manual it's a 7T or the highest grade in their marking system. a 12 x 1.25 hex head would be torqued to 70 ft lbs.

          Most metric bolts are marked with a number 8.8, 10.9, 12.9

          This page some most of the markings in a table http://home.jtan.com/~joe/KIAT/kiat_2.htm
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          • #6
            Originally posted by pfitz View Post
            I checked at least 10 web paged devoted to Bolt Grade Identification, under every "Standard" I could find. I even went at it from an Asian angle.

            I just can't figure out why these bolts hold and last? With a Grade 8 fine thread metric bolt the exact same size, as soon as the weight came down on the suspension they broke off where the threads start?
            We had to cut them off my truck, a power bar and 3' of pipe we could turn them with allot of effort 1/4 turn at a time....Most bolts would break under this stress??

            I Don't Know?????LOL
            If a bolt has metric threads then it should be marked with a metric strength rating, not SAE. The marks you see are not SAE hash marks if it's a metric bolt. Were you using an 8.8 or did a grade 8 SAE fine thread bolt have a similar enough pitch and diameter to work? 16mm and 5/8" bolts are near identical in size.

            Originally posted by Copied from a mfg's FAQ
            Class 5.8 is approximately equivalent to SAE J429 Grade 2
            Class 8.8 is approximately equivalent to SAE J429 Grade 5 and ASTM A449
            Class 9.8 is approximately 9% stronger than equivalent to SAE J429 Grade 5 and ASTM A449
            Class 10.9 is approximately equivalent to SAE J429 Grade 8 and ASTM A354 Grade BD
            For information there is no direct inch equivalent to the metric 12.9 property class.
            I suspect the hash marks on your bolt have nothing to do with the strength rating of the bolt in your particular application. A Toyota should have metric fasteners throughout. Check the flats and flange again carefully, there is usually a number stamped on it somewhere even if it's a proprietary fastener. If you see 12.9 on it somewhere, then that answers your question A Metric 12.9 marked bolt would be stronger than an equivalent size SAE grade 8.

            The nut and bolt are only about $8 each from the dealer, so swapping them with something else isn't really worth the risk. Using non-OEM hardware on suspension parts can be risky business. Be thankful your bolt broke on install instead of while you were driving down the road.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by pfitz View Post
              I have used just about every grade of bolt over the years, as I am sure most of you have too.
              I had to special order these bolts from Toyota for my front torsion bars, grade 8 bolts were not strong enough! (Tried the Cheep method first).

              They have the rounded over corners and 3 dashes in a Y pattern that would point to a Grade 5 bolt, and are fine thread metric, but there is also a raised dot that I can't find a listing for?
              Here is the picture, can anybody tell me what kind of "Super" Bolts these are?



              Thanks!
              Torque to yield or stretch bolts one time use ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Fred Smith View Post
                This marking method is a toyota thing, per the torque spec page in my toy manual it's a 7T or the highest grade in their marking system. a 12 x 1.25 hex head would be torqued to 70 ft lbs.

                Most metric bolts are marked with a number 8.8, 10.9, 12.9

                This page some most of the markings in a table http://home.jtan.com/~joe/KIAT/kiat_2.htm
                WOw! nice find... printing this for my records in the future

                even though it's not my topic...Thanks!
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                Hobart Handler 135
                Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
                Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
                Hypertherm Powermax 45
                Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

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                • #9
                  Wow!!!

                  Thanks for all the great information and links to more information!

                  I have come to the point that I have just accepted that it's a Toyota bolt that cost me $13 each (The complete set of 2 bolts, 2 adjuster nuts, 2 swivels and 2 seats ran $79.55), I'm going to put them on my truck as tight and even as I can get them to tighten up my torsion bars to hold the weight of my plow this winter and I'm not going to worry because I have the right bolt for the application!

                  It just burns my butt when I don't know the answer to my own question, or can't use my trusty Google Answer Getter to find out!LOL
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                  • #10
                    Have you tried going to a wholesale nut and bolt supplier? Usually they know wxactly what everything means and can tell you an equivelant and sell it to you cheaper.
                    Dynasty 200DX
                    Hobart Handler 135
                    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
                    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
                    Hypertherm Powermax 45
                    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      pfitz,
                      This bolt looks to me to be an ASTM A449 type 1 bolt. These bolts are heat treated and have a tensile between 105 to 120 ksi, dependent on diameter. The 3 radial lines indicate an ASTM A449 type 1 bolt and the dot is the manufactures identification mark.
                      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

                      -- Seneca the Younger

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by turboglenn View Post
                        Have you tried going to a wholesale nut and bolt supplier? Usually they know wxactly what everything means and can tell you an equivelant and sell it to you cheaper.
                        I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!!!!!!!!!!! Good One!

                        The high school kid working the parts counter at Toyota didn't know anything!!!
                        Kids these days! It came to $79.55 I gave him $80.05 and he looked at me like a deer in the headlights and tried to give me the 5cents back because he already punched in $80 and the computer said to give me 45cents. I told him to keep the 5cents and just give me back 50cents! some time passed as he looked at the bill, the computer and the money and he just could not wrap his head around the idea! I just gave up and let him give me the 45cents, then I added my 5cents and asked him if I could change all my change in for 2 quarters, he counted it up and said "No problem sir"!

                        I just can't figure out what they are even teaching kids in school these days!!!
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hogan View Post
                          pfitz,
                          This bolt looks to me to be an ASTM A449 type 1 bolt. These bolts are heat treated and have a tensile between 105 to 120 ksi, dependent on diameter. The 3 radial lines indicate an ASTM A449 type 1 bolt and the dot is the manufactures identification mark.
                          There ya go!

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