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  • dual shield wire

    i have a millermatic 180 just bought .045 liner and drive roller and spool of dual shield wire. i am building a wood burning boiler needs to be waterproof i just tried the dual shield wire today ran about 5 beads have never used dual shield before seems to weld alright .i get a clean slag covering but bead seems to be more puddled looking then "stack of dimes " i am used too .is this normal seems to burn in good using 75/25 argon/co2 any advice appreciated thanks. p.s decided to use dual shield because i was getting too many leaks with solid wire .035

  • #2
    Remember you are watching the slag pool not just the metal. I think you most likely need to move a bit slower and you might get better results. Unless the metal is really rusty, regular wire should not have a problem making a water tight bead, just make sure your metal is nice a clean and you have your settings right. You have to watch starts with mig, thats where I have run into problems with liquid tight welds.

    -Dan
    Owner
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    • #3
      dual shield

      thanks i agree my problem with the solid wire was i was not burning it in hot enough .i have this dual shield wire now so i am going to use it now and see how it works .it definitely burns in hotter. i am welding on 1/4 inch steel plate clean no rust other then surface which i have wire brushed off before welding thanks

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      • #4
        just turn it up to 11 dood
        Ed Conley
        http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
        MM252
        MM211
        Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
        TA185
        Miller 125c Plasma 120v
        O/A set
        SO 2020 Bender
        You can call me Bacchus

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        • #5
          One of the main points of the slag cover is to protect the weld from oxidizing as it cools. Dual shield wire by its nature will not have a "stacked dimes" look to it. It freezes to slow. The whole stacked dimes phenomenon comes from a low energy process which is SMAW or stick welding. There are very few instances where the oscilation of the mig puddle is appropriate such as a vertical up and maybe sometimes in the horizontal.

          For mig welding stacking dimes will actually make your penetration shallow. It all has to do with the energy equation. Search some threads on here for more information.

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          • #6
            caribou09,

            What is the wire you are using? Just to add a little to what has already been posted. I'd say to slow down a little. As stated, the stack of dimes is not what you want with dual shield. You don't need to oscillate, just keep your arc at the leading edge of your puddle at about a 15 degree angle.

            As far as the GMAW wire is concerned, the issue you are having with leaks, is this due to pin holes or cracks/non fusion? This sounds like a technique issue. If you list your wire, gas, joint configuration, and amp/volt settings I'm sure someone could advise you as to how to make the weld without leaking.
            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

            -- Seneca the Younger

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
              just turn it up to 11 dood
              So.............if dual shield wont work, I quess triple shield is out of the question?
              Dynasty 350DX
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              • #8
                dual shield

                thanks for all the advice i started welding more with it today i set my amps to 9 and wire feed to 5.5 welding really well i just have to finish and water test will post results thanks again

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                • #9
                  What wire are you using?? I have specs for several dual shield wires and every single spec I have says you are running below recommended minimums. The vast majority have the lowest working amperage listed at 170 for .045 wire. They put lower values in there because it is technically in spec. Experience tells me to never go that low with DS wires. They need it hot. And it isn't the amperage they need hot, either. They are a high voltage wire as well. They'll run 3-4 volts higher than regular wires. .035 DS may be in reach, but I dunno. It is barely in reach of the specs for my MM210, so I am not sure how a MM180 would have enough juice.
                  Don


                  '06 Trailblazer 302
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                  • #10
                    I think the .045 is a tad big for your machine. I have a MM185 and it loves 035 DS. Perfect welds nice and smooth...Bob
                    Bob Wright

                    Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

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                    • #11
                      dual shield

                      the wire i am using is os -71 ELITE E71t-1 i looked online and amperage for .045 is around 130 amps so i have enough amperage but duty cycle is short the project has been sitting there .wont be able to finish until early september .so i will find out how good dual shield works when i watertest any thought appreciated thanks

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                      • #12
                        I think you're right, Wright. I would never have thought to try anything that big on my MM-175, which has turned out to be a rather light-duty unit. Running long beads on 3/16" MS with .035 innershield kept tripping the breaker. Probably the 50' 8-guage extension cable was dropping the input power some, but I need to have that reach. Even if caribou09 could get that .045 dual-shield to run, a 20% duty cycle would be optimistic, or so it seems to me.

                        Do you know what settings work with the .035 D.S. on your 175? I think I'll give it a try.

                        What was done to the MM-175 to uprate it to 180A? A bigger-guage power cord?

                        One idea I had was to fabricate a fiberglass shroud for the cooling fan in my machine. Fan-shrouds, as they are called in automobiles, or ducted-fans as they are called in aircraft, add enormously to the effectiveness of un-ducted fans. Additionally, I would provide extra vents to get the air out. And I also thought I might fabricate (or adapt from a car) an air cleaner housing to take a small, low-resistance, washable K&N filter. I don't know why the welder manufacturers don't do this. They talk about their fans that only run when needed, telling us this is to help keep dirt out of the units. Well, DUH, what about an air cleaner?!! Don't tell me about drag; a properly-sized filter won't have any notable effect, even when dirty if it's a K&N. Besides, if they shroud the leading half of the fan it will pull very well.

                        My 175 is out of warranty, so I can try anything I want. What do y'all think? This is my first visit and first post to this site.

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                        • #13
                          Ed Conley
                          http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
                          MM252
                          MM211
                          Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
                          TA185
                          Miller 125c Plasma 120v
                          O/A set
                          SO 2020 Bender
                          You can call me Bacchus

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                          • #14
                            Too funny!!!
                            at home:
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                            2009 Dynasty 200DX
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                            2008 Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
                            Sold:MM130XP
                            Sold:MM 251
                            Sold:CST 280

                            at work:
                            Invision 350MP
                            Dynasty 350
                            Millermatic 350P
                            Retired:Shopmaster 300 with a HF-251

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                            • #15
                              I don't care who you are that there is funny!

                              Good job Broc!
                              Jeff

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