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  • new Bobcat 250, oil change question

    have the kohler engine
    seeing mixed answers about then to change oil. Does it need to be changed after 5-10 hrs? or wait to 100.

    also read the synthetic oil is better for the high rpm engines, anyone use royal purple?


    thanks

    dave

  • #2
    I would recommend the 5-10 hour first change, and make sure and change the filter too, you never know how well the factory did cleaning filings and machining dirt out of the engine during assembly.

    As to the oil type, everyone has their own opinions. Personally on my Trailblazer I started using synthetic after the first 100 hrs.
    Trailblazer 302
    Lincoln SP-135-T
    Hobart Stickmate AC/DC
    Smith torch
    Spoolmatic 30A

    Comment


    • #3
      Synthetics are not going to hurt a small engine, what oil did you put in it at start up? I am not real **** about engine oil, I would change it soon after new, I wouldn't have a stroke about it being 5 or 10 hrs or 50 for that matter, when you get a chance after a week do it to it but they are so clean to start with it ain't gonna mean squat. If I was running in a filthy hole it would get more, if it sat a lot I might ignore the actual and go by time of the year if I felt like it. I got one with years, less than 25 hrs. When it hits 50 I gonna change. If I was running constant or in crappy winter conditions with lots of starts it would effect how I felt about maint. Being a new engine its nice and tight, oil, especially synths will last a long time, probably run it a thousand hours and never know the difference or suffer from lack of lube.

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      • #4
        thanks for the replys



        dave

        Comment


        • #5
          Did you happen to get an owners manual with it? Duh check it. If not they are available here at Miller free to down load. Use it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Steve, this stuff ain't in the manual.


            I did my Kohler at 10 minutes...yup, 10 minutes, 10 hrs, 50 hrs and 100 hrs. Next change will be at 200 hrs and synthetic will be used at that change. At the 10 minute change, I took a lot of alu crap out of the oil. Glad that stuff wasn't bouncing around the crankcase for 10 hours.
            Don


            '06 Trailblazer 302
            '06 12RC feeder
            Super S-32P feeder

            HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
            Esab Multimaster 260
            Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

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            • #7
              Engine driven welder right? You get one manual tells how to use the welder. You should have gotten another manual for the motor. Its in the manual for the motor. If you did not get the manual for the motor then get it or cry foul. A case in point. We got a new Miller Big 40g with a Contenintal motor. We got two manuals. One for the welder and one for the motor. At any rate Here is what I recommend... New welder, run 100 hours and change oil and filter. I recommend Valvoline or Havoline 10-30. Then change oil every 100 hours after that. If it were my welder that is what I would do as it would run for 18 hours a day. Your milage may vary.

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              • #8
                OOOPPPY. If engine driven welder is water cooled, then the 10-30 is fine. If engine is air cooled I would use a straight weight oil for ambient temperture. The air cooled engines run a tish hotter so straight weights apply. Oil is cheaper than welders so when in doubt change it out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Like I said, this stuff isn't in the manuals. It comes from engine shops and mechs that say do the early changes for best results. This subject has been beat to death here many, many times.


                  FWIW, Kohler does NOT recommend straight weight oil in their engines. They have a history of valve troubles associated with straight weights. 10-W-30 is the approved weight for the Kohler.
                  Don


                  '06 Trailblazer 302
                  '06 12RC feeder
                  Super S-32P feeder

                  HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
                  Esab Multimaster 260
                  Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good info update for the kohler oil recommendation. I still think he shoulda got a manual for the motor as well as the welder. It is a bobcat and that is Miller. They provide both manuals when bought new and he should follow those recommendations. If he didn't get a manual on the motor he got screwed.If he did get one he should read it. And I beg to differ with you cause it is in the manual for the motor break in oil changes. Besides guy wants to know when to change the oil on his new machine with a kohler engine. Still the same look in the motor manual that SHOULD have come with the welder. It is in there.
                    Besides that Miller didn't make the engine, they just put it in the welder. If he really is all that concerned he should take the model and serial number to the Kohler site for the straight answers to his question and not here. Any answer he gets here is little better than bar talk.
                    Last edited by Steve; 07-21-2008, 12:31 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Roughneck Dave,
                      The comments about no straight weight in Kohler engines is correct. Use the viscosity that is on the maintenace label under the top door in the machine.

                      The best thing to do is change the engine oil the first time at 1/2 the recommended interval, in this case 50 hours. After that, you can wait 100 hours.

                      Kohler says synthetic is better for cold weather starts and it does not extend oil change intervals. I agree with that, however, we've also done alot of testing here at Miller and there is no comparison as far as deposits in the engine go. After 3,000 hours, our engines with synthetic oil are as clean inside as they were at 50 hours, conventional oil run engines had quite a few deposits and buildup in them. The other thing that is very important is to use a quality filter. There are alot of real cheap filters, and contaminants are what will wear out an engine, typically not oil breakdown so use a good filter.

                      I hope this helps,
                      Have a great day!

                      John Leisner
                      Product Manager
                      Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

                      Owner and user of:
                      Trailblazer 302 and Legend 301
                      Smith Dual Guard oxy-fuel system
                      Various borrowed Millermatics and Spectrums.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Like the man said there are differences of opinion just like there would be on a Kohler site. The one in my new mower was spotless, Don had stuff come out of his. I figure about the first 5 minutes its all over with, certainly in 5 hrs. 3600 rpm, about anything that is going to come loose has. Most engines break in with about 30 seconds run time. It doesn't hurt to keep heavy load off for a few minutes to let the parts polish but after that its all moot, about 99.9% anyway. All this is about warranty, they figure if you are fussing over it maybe you catch something before it grenades.
                        The oil change wars are mostly just mental masturbation, my secretary is all uptight about 3K changes but drives like a maniac down back roads, likely something else will occur before the truck dies of lack of lube failure. I saw a test where they change oil in NYC taxi's 3K vs 7500 miles on 100 engines, no difference in wear at 100K or more and this was before more modern tolerances in the last few years. You could change every week and it would add about 5 hours to the service life of an engine if that. Number one thing is going to be clean air, out factors oil by huge numbers.
                        Second huge factor in hours of service life is downtime, an engine sitting worst enemy is cylinder corrosion from the open cylinder usually at the top where it is scrubbed clean from change of direction. Firing it up once in a while will do the most or lubing the top end prior to storage will make a difference as will some fresh oil prior to extended storage. In most applications this is all speculation, the avg guy will never know for sure if it makes any difference. It will run 3000 hrs with modest maint or 3001 if you treat it like a baby. Look at some of the new trucks, 100K mile oil changes with 500K warranties.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Like John said, differences in deposits, I will buy that to some extent especially with small air cooled engines where localized heat often is a factor. We service our fair share of engines and anymore we don't see buildups in them if there isn't another primary problem. Oils have improved so much and right up there at least matching is emission controls to some extent. A good working PCV system and the drive for faster cleaner warm ups keep oils cleaner than ever. Fuel injection in automotive has really made a significant difference but ignition systems on small engines as well as improved spark plugs which reduce the rate of misfires play a big part. No longer do you have to continually choke the snot out of things to keep them running. Unburned fuel has to go somewhere, out the exhaust, stick to the internal parts or get pushed by the rings.
                          Here is a test I would like to see, take an engine or couple of them as a control group, run 100 hrs, test the Cly pressures, etc to make sure they are okie dokie, put synth in one and run for 3000 hrs and tear it down.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are several ways to look at maint in these units, Calweld made a good point. where costs are high, labor expensive, the cost of eventually replacing a machine considering use and depreciation may be rather insignificant. If this machine is a pride and joy deal you can wax and polish it, if its in continual service toss the synthetic in, lots of times they don't get oil change regular, they are on a job where service is difficult, expensive and inconvenient. After thousands of hrs of service it might be as practical to toss it.
                            It takes a part timer a long time to put hrs on a machine, my service truck machine is serviced this way, I was on a job and run it 250 hrs, didn't bother with a change till the end when it come back in to the shop, got the change and now has 50 hrs over 5 years on it. If it gets a big run it will get it again, other wise it will get it when its convenient.

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                            • #15
                              I keep an SA200 on a trailer, no hour meter. Its around for the occasional repair where I might want to leave a machine on site, a tank or seawall, etc. It would likely run until the job was finished.
                              I assume from reading threads pipeliners may do this, I am home and heading out, service the machine if its near the duty cycle, but if the hr meter hit 200 I ain't changing it in the parking lot when I know I am headed home in a week, I am gonna run it.

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