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Dynasty 350 DX: Variable Polarity

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  • #16
    ITW is pretty smart. Whether Miller or Hobart, they aren't going to announce to the world--competitors as well as users, that they have a new machine ready to debut. Think about it, how many users of Miller are there compared to maybe a couple hundred who read this board. I woudn't divulge my development plans either. While it looks as if there is a gap in their product line-up now, you have to realize they don't redevelop an entire product line from 150-700amps within a single year. They've made their high-end machines one year and the 150 another year. I'm sure they are working on a refresh to the 200, and if it is like other mature products, they will be sweetening the design either with new features, increased amperage, or both. Remember the XMT-304 that became the XMT-350? The syncrowave 180 that became the 200? ITW reads this board, so they've seen the comments--don't worry.

    Miller does have inverter-based Migs--the Passport and the MM-350. I'm sure in the future there will be more models to fill out the line-up since these models have already proven themselves to be so successful.

    -dseman

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dseman
      While it looks as if there is a gap in their product line-up now, you have to realize they don't redevelop an entire product line from 150-700amps within a single year. They've made their high-end machines one year and the 150 another year. I'm sure they are working on a refresh to the 200, and if it is like other mature products, they will be sweetening the design either with new features, increased amperage, or both.
      The point isn't that the 200 amp machine needs anything...it's that there is a huge gap in power and price, when looking at the 200 vs the 350. If they plan to fill this void, they should have done so at the same time they dropped the 300 dynasty machine.

      By not offering anything in that gap THIS YEAR, many people may give Lincoln or Thermal Arc their business. If they are happy with that purchase, Miller may never get their business back.

      LIke I said, our company is going to need new machines THIS YEAR, as many are going out of warranty. They will be looking to me for advice on what to purchase, and I just cannot honestly tell them that the 350 Dynasty is the best choice, considering price, and functions. In the past, it's always been a no-brainer, but not this time.

      Comment


      • #18
        I never meant this thread to be an indictment on Miller and the way they market or design machines. Yes I said they made a mistake by having such a big gap in their inverter line and I stand by that statement. The fact is though, the 350DX works and works well. Miller isn't responsible for me knowing how to use it other than to provide basic information as to how to set up the machine. I have taken the time to figure out how to use the **** thing and I can honestly say it works as advertised. I still wish I hadn't bought it but I can't in good faith say it doesn't work, It does work and works very well.

        That said, no one needs a 350DX to successfully weld aluminum like I stated before. Don't buy the ****ing thing if you don't feel the need or the want. Let Miller do whatever they will and if it suits your needs, fine, buy it. If not, go elsewhere.
        Dynasty 350DX
        Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
        MM 350P
        MM Passport Plus
        Spectrum 375 Extreme
        08' Trailblazer 302

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        • #19
          Originally posted by KB Fabrications View Post
          That said, no one needs a 350DX to successfully weld aluminum like I stated before. Don't buy the ****ing thing if you don't feel the need or the want. Let Miller do whatever they will and if it suits your needs, fine, buy it. If not, go elsewhere.
          They need feedback...cause that helps them learn what machines will sell.

          I think they have pretty much tapped out the utility of the present technology. The latest bells and whistles just don't amount to anything very helpful, from my experience.


          I like Miller products, and hope I don't have to go elsewhere...but I can't expect them to read my mind and guess at what I want/need.

          Comment


          • #20
            If any company in todays market places thinks they can do what they did before, they will not be in business long.

            People will always shop on two major fronts, price and value. The price shoppers are a tough sell, but they still spend money. The Value shoppers take more effort and a better product to close the deal.

            The technical feedback is really important. If any machine has great advanced features, but the "typical" welder could not put metal down with it, that is really important info.

            On the other hand, if a machine's interface was constructed so well that any welder could use it with the experts being able to adjust it to fit any application, I would say that is a market leading approach.

            On the other hand, if the interface was not so good, well...

            If any mfg does not spend time training it's users, even the best designed interface will fail. The assumption that users will just "know" is typically a flawed approach.


            For me, give me a simple interface with two modes :

            simple mode : covers 95 % of typical welding, turn on, set amps and weld

            advanced mode : let's an informed welder adjust parameters for fine tuning welding parameters, turn on adjust and save settings

            The key here word here, "informed welder" how does someone get informed?

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            • #21
              OK, so by now everyone on the board is aware that Engloid needs to recommend for purchase some machines for his employer. We've heard it now several times and Miller reading this board is aware of it. People on the board also are in agreement about the 'hole' that the missing 300DX has created. So now what? How many machines do you need to recommend for purchase? 12,25,50? That is still small potatoes for a corporation the size of ITW. They will tell you that all of their customers matter---but like any company, some customers matter a lot more than others. Miller works with users to develop products that meet the requirements of that particular niche. Think of the Aerowave--a truly special purpose machine. If you are serious about your concerns for this 'hole' in the tig lineup, then you need to explore other avenues which will have far greater impact than this messageboard. Put together a reasoned and sound explanation of your concerns and needs, quantify to the best of your ability the scope of impact that missing the 300dx has on your business as well as others like yours, and then finally arrange a meeting with Miller's GTAW marketing and development groups, and have a discussion. It's all about dollars and cents. If there is a need and enough money to be made, then they will go for it.

              -dseman

              Comment


              • #22
                They won't just be losing 12 or 25 machines. They will lose the good experience the customer has, they will lose the good impression the weldors have (and pass on). They will lose on the premise that the weldors using those great blue machines might buy one them selves, they will lose on the customers or visitors not seeing blue and not being impreseed by it etc, etc.
                Dynasty 200 DX
                Millermatic 175
                Spectrum 375
                All kinds of Smith OA gear

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by dseman View Post
                  OK, so by now everyone on the board is aware that Engloid needs to recommend for purchase some machines for his employer. We've heard it now several times and Miller reading this board is aware of it. People on the board also are in agreement about the 'hole' that the missing 300DX has created. So now what? How many machines do you need to recommend for purchase? 12,25,50? That is still small potatoes for a corporation the size of ITW.
                  With that attitude, it's a good thing you're not in their customer service department, or in sales... or they'd be in worse shape.
                  Originally posted by dseman View Post
                  They will tell you that all of their customers matter---but like any company, some customers matter a lot more than others. Miller works with users to develop products that meet the requirements of that particular niche.
                  You fail to notice that is the problem... Where is the niche that needs the 350 Dynasty? What features makes it a necessity, or even their best option?
                  Originally posted by dseman View Post
                  Think of the Aerowave--a truly special purpose machine. If you are serious about your concerns for this 'hole' in the tig lineup, then you need to explore other avenues which will have far greater impact than this messageboard. Put together a reasoned and sound explanation of your concerns and needs, quantify to the best of your ability the scope of impact that missing the 300dx has on your business as well as others like yours, and then finally arrange a meeting with Miller's GTAW marketing and development groups, and have a discussion.
                  You say they dont care about the FEW machines I may buy, and it does seem that may be the case...based on the response I have NOT gotten from any posts on the topic... I don't think I want to waste my time doing their research and homework for them.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JMH View Post
                    I've been a member for awhile now but just lurk the forum, I couldn't resist responding to this though. I also think that Miller has made a mistake by leaving such a gap between the 200 and 350. I'm in the market for another machine, and buying another 350 is too much. The 200 is a tad shy on amps. I think Miller should come out with a 275. I personally think a 275 would be an awesome machine. Not to big, not to small.

                    just my 2 cents- Jeff
                    This is what i see in the single phase DC TIG ratings,

                    Dynasty200 is rated
                    100amps at 100% duty cycle
                    150amps at 60%

                    Dynasty300 is rated
                    180amps at 100% duty cycle
                    200amps at 40% duty cycle

                    Dynasty350 is rated
                    180amps at 100% duty cycle
                    225amps at 60% duty cycle

                    Syncrowave 250
                    200amps at 60% duty cycle
                    250amps at 40% duty cycle

                    Syncrowave350
                    300amps at 60% duty cycle
                    350amps at 40% duty cycle

                    The problem is the Dynastys names are over-rated. The Dynasty200 name is over rated worst, it should be a Dynasty160 or 175 at most.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Engloid
                      With that attitude, it's a good thing you're not in their customer service department, or in sales... or they'd be in worse shape.
                      I don't work for Miller, Hobart, ITW, Lincoln, Thermadyne, or anyone in the welding industry, but I do work for a major corporation in another industry. If I'd be working in customer service or sales, I'd be working to find answers to your questions if marketing or development would provide them to me---really. In my work I've had to deal with an unhappy customer when a product I co-developed didn't work in their application as "they" thought it should ($50million on the line), and I've always worked my hardest to satisfy them if at all possible. You say I have a bad attitude. I don't think so. I'm trying to help you by steering you in the direction where your voice could be heard most prominently.

                      Engloid, I respect you and your chops....really. Its just that people get a distorted view of how corporations work by being on this board for any length of time. Someone buys a welder, has a problem, and then comes here and whines until they get resolution--that's good. Then others come to believe that they can directly influence Miller's roadmap. Well they may be of some influence through marketing discussions, or if you are a big customer you can get Miller to create a unique machine for your needs---the Aerowave I believe. Now you need some machines, I understand. But have you contacted the TIG department directly about this issue? Seriously, you'll get much further ahead if you present your case directly to them, especially if you have revenue or expenditure data to back up your concerns. What if you had to buy the 350s and say it was twice the cost of the 300s. Have you discussed with your accountants how much longer it would take to write-off the cost of the machines? You work for a profitable company, right? Are you saying that they couldn't recoup the extra cost of the 350 in a timely manner? Labor costs are usually considerably more than equipment expenditures. I'm not saying here that the 350 gives you the extra features that you need above the 300, I'm just looking at the cost for this example.

                      Originally posted by Engloid;
                      You fail to notice that is the problem... Where is the niche that needs the 350 Dynasty? What features makes it a necessity, or even their best option?
                      That I don't know. I know I don't need one.Have you contacted the TIG department for application information? Someone there should be able to tell you WHY they made the changes that they did.

                      Originally posted by Engloid;
                      You say they dont care about the FEW machines I may buy, and it does seem that may be the case...based on the response I have NOT gotten from any posts on the topic... I don't think I want to waste my time doing their research and homework for them.
                      Well I'm sorry to hear that. But if I was this worked up about it, you'd better believe I'd be contacting them. But that's up to you.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Niche

                        I think the niche they need to fill is a 208/230 volt single phase only shop tig machine on the order of the Shopmate 300DX. I would like the single phase capabilities of the dynasty 350DX but it would be foolish of me to spend the money on an expensive 1/3 phase machine that will spend the rest of its life in a single phase shop. I would assume that it would be cheaper to make a single phase 208/230 volt only machine if the sales volume is there. I believe that the sales volume is there as there are many who have single phase only. I think the apparent success of Thermal Arcs 185 AC/DC Arcmaster shows that people will buy a 208/230 volt single phase machine that is cheaper and simpler than the equivalent 1/3 phase machine.

                        RonL
                        RonL

                        Big Blue 500 CC/CV
                        CST 280
                        Hypertherm Powermax 1650
                        Suitcase 12 RC
                        24A Feeder

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wow.

                          First, let's say this.
                          Nice welds KB...Could use less pos amperage or more balance. You still have an excessive cleaning zone.

                          We absolutely know where our holes are and second, why would we tell the world our long term goals just to have the competition run to fill them.

                          About the $$ difference, if one was to compare costs, the list price of the Dynasty 300 Tigrunner at $7971, the D350 TR is barely $300 more. When shopping for the Ferrari of Tig welders, do you really haggle over the $300??

                          Now I know some would say YES, but in the big picture, the industrial customer or heavy Aluminum customer this machine was designed for has no issue with the cost verses the added features.

                          Be advised, we know what the market wants, and the plans have been on paper long before anyone here thinks they know better.

                          That said, I still have my Dynasty 300s and still love them but....when I get enough $ saved and sell one more of my D300s, Ill purchase a D350. I like the VP plus the different wave shapes. The soft square is easier on the ears and easier on the tungsten and my favorite of the 4 shapes. The added freq with small tung in tight places is pretty cool too.

                          We are here and even though we don't address every "are you listening MILLER" comment, we do know welding and we do know how our strategy, design, field testing and introduction to market timing. We won't release product before it's reliably ready.

                          I hope this soothes some of your concerns. The Dynasty 350 was not designed to increase the gap between the have or have nots, can or can not afford. For the product and added features, the $300 increase was needed and to have two 300 tig power sources in such a close price range really didn't make sense.

                          Thanks!

                          Andy

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            cyberweld lists the d350 tig runner at $6,611
                            Dynasty 200 DX
                            Millermatic 175
                            Spectrum 375
                            All kinds of Smith OA gear

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Coal,

                              I'm not bashing anyone. It would just not be responsible to admit to any of our strategies before it was ready to pull the trigger. Sometimes saying or admitting we hear and understand is the same as admitting it's on it's way in some peoples eyes.

                              I agree 100% in that you have to justify the expendature. I think it's the people that WANT the high end technology stuff and are mad that the cost are just a wee bit too high. I lived with my Syncrowaves for years until I could AFFORD a Dynasty. I'm no different with my business.

                              Happy welding in the great North Coal!

                              A

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ASKANDY
                                Wow.

                                First, let's say this.
                                Nice welds KB...Could use less pos amperage or more balance. You still have an excessive cleaning zone.
                                Thanks Andy. Like I said, those welds were on a 2 to 1 ratio of EN to EP. I have a lot more work to do with it. I have been playing with some more settings and am inching towards a 3 to 1 ratio. We'll see how it goes.

                                KB
                                Dynasty 350DX
                                Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
                                MM 350P
                                MM Passport Plus
                                Spectrum 375 Extreme
                                08' Trailblazer 302

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