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  • 3G and 6G AWS tests.

    Cann anyone break down these certification tests detail by detail for me? I am going to be taking both of them through work in the next 2 months or so with E71M FCAW and 7018 SMAW on 1" plate. I believe this certifies me for any position with these electrodes. Am I correct? For the tests how do I prepare the coupons? How big, what kind of bevel, how precise does the bevel have to be, do I use a backing plate, if so what thickness? Do I cut the backing plate off afterwards etc? I appreciate any answers or info. Thanks. Dave

  • #2
    Hi Dave;

    Thats a big question, I would normal have you attend class for 3-6 weeks to answer all of that and to prep you for the test. Part of the problem is I have know idea of your skill level and I doubt that you have ever seen the code book that the test will follow, so we can't talk and look at the code and discuss your questions.

    I would go to the administrator of the test (company QC Dept. head) and ask him/her what you need to know. If you can find an old copy of AWS D1.1 Structural Steel welding code book, new they are $300.00+ that might help.

    You will most likely get a host of answers and half will be half wrong.

    Basic AWS Unlimited thickness groove weld is with backing 1/4" or 3/8" on 1" plate, groove is 60deg. included with 1/8" -1/4" gap 3G will be all up.

    6G will be on pipe. So I think you are going to do the standard plate test of a 4G .
    To be fully qualified in both processes you will do a 3G and 4G with each process.

    The wire test for both positions should take about 3 hours any longer and I stare to look sideways at your resume', the stick test will go on for ever so don't make your bevel any bigger than required. Just burn hot and keep the arc on the edges of the groove.


    If you know how to weld this should be no big deal. It is the minimum test for all the welders I hire.


    TJ
    TJ______________________________________

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you going to an "accredited test facility"? Just curious since it has recently been a topic of discussion at work lately. There are only TWO AWS Accredited Test Facilities in Texas and they're both over 200 miles away. Also AWS won't take an application stamped by a CWI (ask me how I know)

      As for your testing, 3/4 plate qualifies for unlimited and you have to do 3G and 4G. 6G is the 45degree pipe in the fixed position. This seems like an awful amout of money to be spent on certification. I'd just do the pipe. That'll impress your future boss. Hopefully some more experienced guys will respond to your post who know the inner workings of the industry better.

      I'm only speculating that you would have to call the testing facility and find out if they do a bend test, nick test, xray or whatever
      I'd say Good Luck but you probably don't need luck
      Matt Adams A&P, IA
      Trailblazer 302
      Dialarc HF

      Comment


      • #4
        Any employer an certify you to be a AWS qualified welder.
        Just by following the steps laid out in AWS code books under prequalified procedures and welder qualifications.
        Plate test under AWS D1.1 prequalified limited test using 3/8" plate qualifies you up to 3/4" plate and unlimited using 1" plate.
        A 6g pipe test could qualify you for unlimited plate, has to be the correct test, and I don't think a prequalified procedure exists in AWS D1.1 for pipe.
        If you come to an employer with just a pipe cert, in Alaska any way, they think you are just going to work till the next shutdown or pipe line starts up.

        TJ
        TJ______________________________________

        Comment


        • #5
          What are the minimum sizes for the 3g and 4g plates for the test, i.e.- width, height. Thanks. Dave

          Originally posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
          Hi Dave;

          Thats a big question, I would normal have you attend class for 3-6 weeks to answer all of that and to prep you for the test. Part of the problem is I have know idea of your skill level and I doubt that you have ever seen the code book that the test will follow, so we can't talk and look at the code and discuss your questions.

          I would go to the administrator of the test (company QC Dept. head) and ask him/her what you need to know. If you can find an old copy of AWS D1.1 Structural Steel welding code book, new they are $300.00+ that might help.

          You will most likely get a host of answers and half will be half wrong.

          Basic AWS Unlimited thickness groove weld is with backing 1/4" or 3/8" on 1" plate, groove is 60deg. included with 1/8" -1/4" gap 3G will be all up.

          6G will be on pipe. So I think you are going to do the standard plate test of a 4G .
          To be fully qualified in both processes you will do a 3G and 4G with each process.

          The wire test for both positions should take about 3 hours any longer and I stare to look sideways at your resume', the stick test will go on for ever so don't make your bevel any bigger than required. Just burn hot and keep the arc on the edges of the groove.


          If you know how to weld this should be no big deal. It is the minimum test for all the welders I hire.


          TJ

          Comment


          • #6
            You'll need 1" plate about 9" long X 4" wide with a backing plate of 12". Bevel approximately 30deg the 9" edge of both plates and tack them about 1/4" apart to the backing. Then tack the whole thing into the position and weld.

            When finished cut the coupons from the plate. I think you'll need four pieces to do four side bends. Two from the upper half two from the lower. Remove the backing get it close with a O/A torch then take it just to the parent metal with a grinder, do not remove any of the parent metal. Then bend around a mandrill, I don't remember the radius of the plunger.

            It passes if first it did not brake and it has no discontinuity's grater than the code allows.

            You'll need to check all the dimensions with the code you are testing to, I am taking all of this from memory, and the first rule about codes never trust your memory, read the code.

            TJ
            TJ______________________________________

            Comment


            • #7
              Oops, you're right

              Originally posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
              Plate test under AWS D1.1 prequalified limited test using 3/8" plate qualifies you up to 3/4" plate and unlimited using 1" plate.


              TJ
              I always get that confused. The part I don't get about AWS certification is how can a company say your certified if AWS doesn't recognize it?
              I've been going to school every night for over 2 years and I have 4 days left in my advanced pipe class and there's a few of us trying to figure this certification business out.
              Matt Adams A&P, IA
              Trailblazer 302
              Dialarc HF

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tex View Post
                I always get that confused. The part I don't get about AWS certification is how can a company say your certified if AWS doesn't recognize it?
                I've been going to school every night for over 2 years and I have 4 days left in my advanced pipe class and there's a few of us trying to figure this certification business out.
                Who has told you that AWS won't recognize an AWS certification.


                AWS sets out in D1.1 all the requirements to qualifying a welder. End of story.



                This is the forward from AWS D1.3 the sheet metal code

                One of the primary objectives of this code is to define the allowable capacities used in sheet steel applications
                which the transfer of calculated load occurs. The foremost examples of such applications are steel decks, panels, storage
                racks, and stud and joist framing members. It is a concurrent objective of this code to impose workmanship, technique,
                and qualification requirements so as to effect consistently sound execution of welding of joints in these categories.
                Certain shielded metal arc, gas metal arc, gas tungsten arc, gas metal arc and flux cored arc welding procedure specifications
                (WPSs) when used with certain types of joints, have been tested by users and have a history of satisfactory performance.
                These WPSs are designated as prequalified, may be employed without further evidence, and include most of
                those that are commonly used. However, the purpose of defining prequalified WPSs is not to preclude the use of other
                WPSs as they are qualified.
                When other processes, WPSs, or joints are proposed, they are subject to the applicable provisions of this code and
                shall be qualified by tests. The obligation is placed on the contractor to prepare WPSs and qualify them before production
                use.
                All WPSs (prequalified and qualified) must include the classification of the filler metal, its size, and for each type of
                weld, its melting rate or other suitable means of current control indicative of the melting rate, as applicable. The requirements
                for the qualification of welders and welding operators are also given. Welder qualification test requires each
                welder to prove their ability to produce satisfactory welds using these prequalified or qualified WPSs.
                Although this code is essentially directed at those joints that are used to transfer loads, the quality of welds where
                strength is not a governing consideration should meet the quality standards that will maintain the integrity of the supporting
                structure. The allowable capacity provisions of section 2 could be disregarded when the welds are not used in
                load-carrying capacity.
                Comments and suggestions for the improvement of this standard are welcome. They should be sent to the D1 Secretary,
                American Welding Society, 550 N.W. LeJeune Road, Miami, FL 33126.
                Official interpretations of any of the technical requirements of this standard may be obtained by sending a request,
                writing, to the D1 Secretary, American Welding Society, 550 N.W. LeJeune Road, Miami, FL 33126 (see Annex B).


                TJ
                TJ______________________________________

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
                  Who has told you that AWS won't recognize an AWS certification.

                  TJ
                  The stinkin head of certification at AWS. He said since I didn't go to an "Accredited Test Facility" they wouldn't accept an application for certification signed and stamped by an AWS Certified Welding Inspector.

                  Now I've got people telling me if you have the paper you're certified but if AWS won't issue a card that tells me my cert isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Heck, it took me a whole week just to get someone on the phone so my opinion of this organization is a little low right now. AND I sent in the application last December and nobody there felt the need to contact me about my application. I had to call and leave several voice-messages to track down the results myself. just a note.... there's no "Accredited Test Facility" in Alaska so I guess welders up there are just out of luck!
                  Matt Adams A&P, IA
                  Trailblazer 302
                  Dialarc HF

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tex View Post
                    certification signed and stamped by an AWS Certified Welding Inspector.>>>

                    just a note.... there's no "Accredited Test Facility" in Alaska so I guess welders up there are just out of luck!
                    Take that signed stamped paper you have from the CWI make copies lots of copies make some reduced copies for your wallet. Then any time you work to one of your certs have the inspector. company owner, supervisor, job foreman date and initial the copy in you wallet. Have that done once every five months and 28 days and your certs will be good for life.


                    you don't need anything from AWS!

                    Reality when you go apply for a job I am going to make you test all over again to my procedure and when you leave my employment you are not going to take any cert papers with my company name on them with you. Why because I paid you to test I paid to write up the procedure and the cert is useless out side of my company.

                    You can test your self and certify yourself to AWS D1.1. I did it and it is 100% legitimate.


                    TJ
                    TJ______________________________________

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks TJ.
                      Matt Adams A&P, IA
                      Trailblazer 302
                      Dialarc HF

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You bet

                        Good Luck

                        TJ
                        TJ______________________________________

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So you're saying I can test myself to AWS standards? How do i determine if I passed? Do I have to hold onto the coupons, or is it more of an honor system? Than ks. Dave
                          Originally posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
                          You bet

                          Good Luck

                          TJ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by turbo38t View Post
                            So you're saying I can test myself to AWS standards? How do i determine if I passed? Do I have to hold onto the coupons, or is it more of an honor system? Than ks. Dave


                            Short answer to the question is yes.



                            First you need a copy of the AWS code such as D1.1 structural steel welding code. Then you need to be able to interpret this code book, all AWS codes give you the allowable discontinuity's.

                            I would not attempt this with out a thorough understanding of writing procedures, and the paper trail used to document the qualification of welders.

                            Now if you are just trying to asses you skills as a welder, the basic tenant of AWS codes in destructive testing. Put a sample of your welding through a 90deg. bend and see if it survives in one piece. Or just cut a cross section of your weld looking for holes, slag, or other debris.

                            I will not go into the specifics of testing a coupon or the criteria used to evaluate it. Nor will I give out the details of writing a procedure or a test record.
                            If id did and you used that info instead of the code to test yourself, one you would be a boob and I a fool.

                            If you want more info buy the book of find a AWS CWI that will sit down with you and answer your questions.




                            TJ
                            TJ______________________________________

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is wrong. You cannot certify yourself.

                              Your test plate must pass visual bend examination by a certified welding inspector (cwi). Even if you are a CWI yourself you cannot certify your own test plates. I dont have the code in front of me, but it does specify that, for reasons of conflict of interest.

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