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  • #16
    Iíve never seen tuff times. I can remember my dad telling stories about tuff times in the 1930ís and 40ís. Somewhat the same situation, guys cutting each otherís throats for a paycheck. My dad said thatís when the baseball bats and 3-foot long pieces of 1-inch pipe came out . Some people are just like the old story of the plowing mule, ďyou just have to hit him right between the eyes before you start every morning, then heís fine for the dayĒ!

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    • #17
      When I was an apprentice, working in an oil refinery, I canít remember all the details, but the pipe fitters were having trouble with another union. The walking steward had guys on every pipe machine on the job cutting pipe, to settle their differences ! Luckily it didnít come to that, but very close.

      Some guys just have a tendency to get upset when someone is trying to take food out of their familyís mouth.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by stick man View Post
        Must be nice in my area your lucky to get 80 an hour even if you do have all your papers but I dont blame the guys at all for being pissed if people are coming up thier and dropping their rates

        They're talking Canadien dollars.

        You're talking American dollars.

        JTMcC.
        Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by pipeline Dan View Post
          So
          Calweld you live down south and you got some contracts for jobs say 6 months worth and your rate is around 75 and then all of a sudden I pull up
          get my self a shop and start up a company but I do it for 70 and take over
          your contracts. Your telling me your going to tell yourself, ohh well I'll chalk
          it up to supply and demand. I'll get that Canadian back I'll drop my rates
          to 65, ya that will get him. Maybe when I go to pay my bills and dont have
          enough I can tell those companies, Sorry cant pay you cause the supply and
          demand doesn't allow me to this month.
          It's a free country, anybody can charge what they want. I've been undercut before, I'm sure I will again in the future, I just roll with it. If I can't make it in this business, I'll just have to do something else. But I'm sure not going to cry about it, I've been here watching rates and prices for various services and products go up and down for the last 30 years or so, it's normal business cycles. You kind of remind me of a couple ex-customers of mine, stuck in the '50's, think costs should stay the same (low) while getting current mega-dollars for their own product

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          • #20
            And BTW, I have no contracts, I live day to day on market rates.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by calweld View Post
              It's all economics, supply and demand, tends to level everything out. Learn to live with it.

              The free market system is a beautifull thing, but it requires modification in a few areas and this is one. Area standards must be upheld for the market to work. Without strong efforts to uphold area standards your area, more than most, would be in trouble. California is one of the more expensive states to live, and wages are high there because of that. You make what I assume is a comfortable living in that state but if the market was left totally unrestrained you wouldn't be able to afford a home or to feed the kids working as a welder because there would be large numbers of Plillipino's, housed in man camps and off shore barge quarters doing all of the welding in California for a few bucks per hour (this is the reality in some countries right now). The Phillipino's would be living high on the hog in their home economy, but the prospects for local Californians to make a living welding would be non existent. At that point you have the option to pursue a career as a lawyer or a politician because every other occupation will have been manned by third world transient workers.
              So efforts to preserve area standards, in my opinion, are a worthwhile and needed modification the the system. A ballance has to be made for the vastly different cost of living in various areas of the world/country.
              Fierce competition of course still has a significant place, just not unfair competition from people who don't have to and never will live on the local economy.

              My take, take it for what you paid for it.


              JTMcC, who has never undercut prices in any area of the world he's worked in
              Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Coalsmoke View Post
                well there's definitely a couple ways of looking at it, some just lay down and take it up the @ss and some raise a little ****, which is better it probably more personal preference than anything else. However, Cal you and I both know that just becuase we live in free countries doesn't mean business and economics will always work out for the best on their own. In fact, I suspect you'd agree that counting on the finances to work out on their own would be a naive way of managing a business
                So what do you suggest??? I go to these customers and demand they pay my price, even though somebody else is cheaper??? Or maybe contact some "family" and arrange for some "leg breaking" if they won't cooperate????

                No, being in Business means you constantly adjust your services and products, you grow and adapt, to meet changing demands and markets over time. If I was still doing what I was doing 20-odd years ago, I'd still be living in a little 20 foot camp trailer behind somebody's house.

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                • #23
                  I agree somewhat with caweld we have all adjusted are prices to get a little work.

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                  • #24
                    No, you misunderstand, I have never adjusted my price anywhere but up! Only thing I do adjust is the service I provide, either my skills, my equipment, or the market I target.

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                    • #25
                      sorry if I misunderstood what I meant was that Ive bid a projects before and had to cut cost either on material mark up or hourly pricing as far as maybe not figuring the time to go get the materials or the time it took to bid the
                      job I would never drop my price to get a job knowning it would affect others

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Coalsmoke View Post
                        And I suspect your markets offer much greater short term stability than ours up here. When a natural resource industry up here takes a hit or has a slowdown, it can have huge repercussions on a large scale populus, not just industry specific employees.
                        Well, we do have a little micro-economic climate here, grapes and wineries are a big influence, both have been down for the last few years, somehow I muddle thru . . .

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Coalsmoke View Post
                          how did you get them extra words in there without it saying you edited your post? You must have some sort of computer god powers
                          I'm fast. Kind of like re-adjusting business priorities

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                          • #28
                            coalsmoke

                            you got me on that one looking at the big picture you are in fact taking money out of your pocket, if the competition in my areas thought like alot of you guys it would be alot easier place to run a buisness. But here in KY, we compete with none certified and non insured on a daily basis I lost a job a couple months ago to another welder that told the contractor he could do the welding for 40.00 an hour.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Coalsmoke View Post
                              heh heh heh, ok, I'll drink some vino to that
                              Just make sure it's CALIFORNIA wine, not that cheap Aussie or Argentina stuff!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pipeline Dan View Post
                                If it was me Id say stay the f*ck where you are, There is money to be made out here for sure but thats what is f*ck'en the whole thing up, guys brining there rigs to Alberta for work and taking a pay cut just to get the job mean
                                while the wage your get right now was that way cause we made them pay us
                                that before we would work, I dont care if you come out to better your selves
                                but you guys are taking jobs for less money Example of this is, my rate
                                for pipeline last year was 110-115, I'll be luckey if I see 85-100 this winter
                                the oil companies say we where charging to much last winter, So now they bring guys in from out east who will do it for less money, I am telling you right now, The reason why we wanted that rate cause it cost alot to live here, Down the road you'll see for yourself what I am talking about, You guys just see $$$$$ but there is a reason why we need that kind of money. One thing
                                I'd like to know is how do you come out here to work and not have a Alberta ticket or any kind of school behind you and get work Why would
                                do I have to go to school and you dont. If your welding out pipe do you have
                                a "B" ticket, If you dont why do I have to have one. I have no problem with you coming here to work, But dont f*ck it up for us that have paid our dos and made the rate for what it is today. Turn it the other way around, You guys from out east have lots of work and I come out to work and do it for cheaper and you sit at home Call me an SOB I give a rats a*s Im just trying to shed some light from a rig welders point of view from Alberta.
                                I am sure other guys feel this way as well

                                You're frequent throwing of the "F" bomb shows a real lack of class. You've displayed your particular lack of class repeatedly now. There are young kids, girls and women with an interest in welding, your language is low rent.
                                Maybe you talk to your wife and children that way but most civilized people don't. I suggest you get a grip on your tongue. If that makes you as mad as my other post's, my offer to you still stands.


                                JTMcC.
                                Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

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