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Roll Bar Install

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  • Roll Bar Install

    As soon as it warms up a little bit here in CT I'm going to tackle my first roll bar install.

    Going to do an 8pt bar, chromoly and I have a couple of questions.

    Can I tack things with a flux core mig and then go back over everything with the TIG or will the tack be too contaminated.

    My TIG only has a foot pedal control that will be impossible to use while contorted in the car making welds. Is it possible to rig a simple on/off switch somehow. My TIG is a Syncrowave 180SD.

  • #2
    I wouldn't do it with fluxcore...Bob

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    • #3
      Welding method, cage material and thickness are dictated by the sanctioning body and may vary by class... NHRA?.... SCCA? ...IMSA? ...WRC?.. NASA?
      what does the rulebook say?

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      • #4
        Where in CT. are you.

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        • #5
          Rulebook definately says TIG and it is my intention to TIG everything but I was thinking it would be far easier to tack everything up with the flux core mig and then go back over everything with full TIG welds. If that not cool then I'll go straight TIG.

          I'm in East Hartford, CT

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          • #6
            Brian
            TIG welding around cars and for motorsports seems to require some forms of contortionist skills and physical torture involving bodily positions that just aint natural... pushing a pedal with elbow, knee, or..... having an assistant work the pedal for you.... it has all been done.... Luckily, these days there are a variety of hand controls available.... both from Miller and third parties... My personal favorite has to be the Weldcraft LS-17 torch with integrated hand control although I also have an RCC-14....
            My suggestion would be to tack using the "scratch tig" method or to embrace the inevitable and invest in a hand control for those times when a pedal is too awkward...

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            • #7
              Why not solid wire tacks instead of flux. Seems like a lot of cleaning with the flux wire

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              • #8
                Originally posted by strictlycarved View Post
                Why not solid wire tacks instead of flux. Seems like a lot of cleaning with the flux wire
                Mostly because of what I have on hand. I've been tiging alot of aluminum lately so both of my small 80cf tanks have straight argon in them. I would need to swap out a nearly full tank to get gas for the Mig.

                It's amazing how expensive the torch mounted amperage controls are heck they cost more than I paid for the torch......

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                • #9
                  What kind of car?
                  A number of the better cages I have seen use 2" (or tubing diameter) holes in the floor to "feed up" the tubing, this also allows you to weld the tops of the joints and keep it tight to the roof line, B pillars etc.. Holes are then filled and covered with the mounting plates.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by csedan510 View Post
                    What kind of car?
                    A number of the better cages I have seen use 2" (or tubing diameter) holes in the floor to "feed up" the tubing, this also allows you to weld the tops of the joints and keep it tight to the roof line, B pillars etc.. Holes are then filled and covered with the mounting plates.
                    Car is a 1994 Thunderbird Super Coupe with a supercharged 6-cyl. Ran best of 11.17 last fall so it was time for some safety upgrades.

                    I've been told by a couple people about the hole in the floor board trick....definately gonna give that a go. I bought an 8pt roll bar kit from S&W I think all of the tubing is .083" wall 1-3/4"...also picked up some extra tubing so I can get in some practice before going live. Should be an interesting project but I can't do much other than make some practice welds until it warms up a bit since my garage isn't big enough to work on the car with the door wide open.

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                    • #11
                      I've been welding 4130 race care chassis for nearly 25 years now and you should tack and weld it with TIG method. You can tack with ER70S6 if you must but it just causes you to have that tack in the middle of the weld that looks bad. For TIG use either ER70S2 or S6... Most people still swear by S2 but the mill spec will allow S6 to be used anywhere S2 is called for and if it's good enough for mill spec I think the race car world can allow it.. The original wire was Oxweld 65 if my memory serves me correct.. Anyway I like S6 a lot better because the higher silicon makes everything flow out a little nicer. Be sure and use a foot control and don't over heat the tubing because it makes it brittle. Also 1/16 wire is the choice size for this.

                      I hope this helps you get off on the right foot.

                      CK makes some very nice torch mounted controls that aren't all that expensive..I know my next rig will be a CK because they have a 300 amp torch that isn't any larger than a WP20 weldcraft and takes all the same parts as a WP20..
                      Last edited by Gunner12R; 03-08-2012, 12:37 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Tubing fit

                        On your roll bar, the most important thing is fitting the tubing correctly at the joints, some people call it fishmouthing , you can buy a manual cutter that turns with a drill or if you have access to a mill chuck up the proper sized end mill at the proper angle and cut away. I have even used drum sanding rolls for minor adjustments on a HS grinder.
                        In either case if you want a nice job the fit has to be there and keep your weld zone clean.
                        By the way we use 100% argon and 309 stainless on all our chromoly tubing.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gunner12R View Post
                          I've been welding 4130 race care chassis for nearly 25 years now and you should tack and weld it with TIG method. You can tack with ER70S6 if you must but it just causes you to have that tack in the middle of the weld that looks bad. For TIG use either ER70S2 or S6... Most people still swear by S2 but the mill spec will allow S6 to be used anywhere S2 is called for and if it's good enough for mill spec I think the race car world can allow it.. The original wire was Oxweld 65 if my memory serves me correct.. Anyway I like S6 a lot better because the higher silicon makes everything flow out a little nicer. Be sure and use a foot control and don't over heat the tubing because it makes it brittle. Also 1/16 wire is the choice size for this. ..
                          I agree with Gunner12R on choice of filler......

                          also...there are quite a few old threads to be searched... it is worth your while to read them... after all it is your neck in the balance......

                          I would NOT use 309 filler for his application... this is an obsolete practice that was followed in the mistaken notion that the SS filler would make the 4130 welds more impact resistant and durable... I used to follow that practice myself until I was shown the error of my ways... It was common practice in race cars during the 1950's and 1960's... and also btw by the people that taught me (in 1968).... but testing and experience taught me better..............

                          I would also seek out the tech inspector for your local sanctioning body for guidance..... after all he/she will grade your work and either pass or reject it...... so better not to stumble on issues that they consider important....

                          BTW ... Here is a link to an AWS article regarding 4130 fillers....

                          http://www.aws.org/wj/apr03/AWfeature.html
                          Last edited by H80N; 03-13-2012, 03:46 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks guys....weather is starting to get nicer here so it's time to dig into this. I've got a bunch of extra tubing so I'm going to make up some joints and some practice welds, I'm pretty confident I'll be OK welding on the bench but beiing out of position with my body contorted in the trunk of the car or something where I can't really work the foot pedal is going to get real interesting.

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                            • #15
                              The coolest thing I've seen for the out of position TIG welds is a strapped to the knee pedal. This rigged up a knee pad with a pedal on inside of his knee so it could be pressed by his other knee. Just need to be cautious of the cord when moving around and getting in to the out of position position, and of your leg getting tired hovering above the pedal (it'll wake you up.)

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