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Audi R8 Hand Welded Aluminum Chassis

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  • Audi R8 Hand Welded Aluminum Chassis

    Was watching "Ultimate Factories" on the Audi R8 and was amazed to see that they mig welded the chassis together by hand..
    here is a link to the show

    http://channel.nationalgeographic.co.../4544/Overview

    and here is a link from icar on welded alloy chassis..

    http://www.i-car.com/pdf/advantage/o...008/051908.pdf

    Could not find out what type of welders that Audi uses... anybody have any ideas??

    thanks
    Heiti
    .

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  • #2
    What welding machines?

    Haven't seen the show, but in the one still image, they look like "Fronius" welding machines. Austrian made and quite sophisticated electronics, I believe. Some US market penetration. Try http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xchg/...s.xsl/3022.htm. The only problem (I consider it a problem) is that almost all TIG machines made outside of the US market are based on a torch mounted amperage control. I'm a tried and true "Foot control" TIG welder. I have an ESAB with hand control and just don't like the lack of control I get with the hand switch.
    Last edited by Stillwelding; 04-27-2010, 12:47 AM.

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    • #3
      Maybe I'm wrong but it looks like they're mig welding.

      Comment


      • #4
        Rambling reply

        Sorry, I was just rambling about European welding machines in general (TIG). They are MIG welding, and I still think those are Fronius welding machines.

        Comment


        • #5
          Stillwelding
          might very well be Fronius machines... have some info that i-car developed their aluminum car structural repair program in Appleton, Wi. maybe using MM350P machines??? wouldnt mind some input from Andy or somebody from Miller.....
          Also
          while skunking around for this found some cool Al design info .....
          here are some links...

          http://aluminumintransportation.org/.../at6manual.pdf

          and here an industry group.. lots of info..

          http://aluminumintransportation.org/...ut-us/about-us

          my MM350P and Alumapro would be right at home.....
          Attached Files
          .

          *******************************************
          The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

          “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

          Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

          My Blue Stuff:
          Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
          Dynasty 200DX
          Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
          Millermatic 200

          TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

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          • #6
            Attached files

            Thanks for the PDF file attachment on the Aluminum extrusions. Also, I looked at the video in the link from the first post, and those are definitely "Fronius" equipment. Red and white with a Fronius label on the side. I wouldn't expect much other than Fronius.

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            • #7
              Could be....... Fronius was not sure, I exchanged notes with them today.. they will get back with me.... still think a MM350P would be about right..
              .

              *******************************************
              The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

              “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

              Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

              My Blue Stuff:
              Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
              Dynasty 200DX
              Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
              Millermatic 200

              TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

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              • #8
                ALCOA Aluminum automotive structures

                For what it is worth... lots of the engineering for these structures.. Audi, Ferarri, Jag etc... is ALCOA in Ohio... U. S. of A..

                http://www.alcoa.com/aats/en/product...sp?cat_id=1527
                .

                *******************************************
                The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                My Blue Stuff:
                Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                Dynasty 200DX
                Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                Millermatic 200

                TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                Comment


                • #9
                  More and more aluminum in automotive structures... and many will need repair...

                  http://www.search-autoparts.com/sear...l.jsp?id=58064

                  and i-car is starting to qualify people for that welding ability..

                  http://www.i-car.com/html_pages/trai...wqt_info.shtml
                  .

                  *******************************************
                  The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                  “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                  Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                  My Blue Stuff:
                  Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                  Dynasty 200DX
                  Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                  Millermatic 200

                  TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well Stillwelding it may be time for you to do a bit more research about non USA manufactured welding equipment.I believe nearly all brands of tig welding equipment produced outside the US are available with foot controls.Also most of the European manufactured machines are technically further advanced than US equipment.I have a 230 amp single phase AC/DC tig manufactured by Kemppi in Finland.It also has the ability to weld Ali in a mix of AC and Dc.
                    Have a look at Kemppi.com.Also German manufacture EWM machines

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by raptorex View Post
                      Well Stillwelding it may be time for you to do a bit more research about non USA manufactured welding equipment.I believe nearly all brands of tig welding equipment produced outside the US are available with foot controls.Also most of the European manufactured machines are technically further advanced than US equipment.I have a 230 amp single phase AC/DC tig manufactured by Kemppi in Finland.It also has the ability to weld Ali in a mix of AC and Dc.
                      Have a look at Kemppi.com.Also German manufacture EWM machines
                      So the ability to use a mix of AC/DC current ( yes I understand the waveform ) somehow makes the machine more advanced?? From my understanding the control strategy of a Dynasty series machine can be configured to do the same....the question is....why? Is it really useful...or is it just a gadget? Complication for the sake of complication? Is the effect that much different than pulsed AC? A good reality check for me, is to remember that we went to the moon, using torch welding, transformer tig, slide rules, toggle switches, and skilled engineers and fabricators. I sometimes think we just develop more gadgets to replace skill.
                      "Better Metalworking Through Research"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by raptorex View Post
                        I have a 230 amp single phase AC/DC tig manufactured by Kemppi in Finland.It also has the ability to weld Ali in a mix of AC and Dc.
                        The dynasty 350 with individual control of EP vs. EN is exactly the same as mixing AC + DC. If I may EN 100 Amps, and EP 50, its like welding at 75Amps AC + 25 Amps offset (DC).
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                        • #13
                          Foot control

                          Originally posted by raptorex View Post
                          Well Stillwelding it may be time for you to do a bit more research about non USA manufactured welding equipment.I believe nearly all brands of tig welding equipment produced outside the US are available with foot controls.Also most of the European manufactured machines are technically further advanced than US equipment.I have a 230 amp single phase AC/DC tig manufactured by Kemppi in Finland.It also has the ability to weld Ali in a mix of AC and Dc.
                          Have a look at Kemppi.com.Also German manufacture EWM machines
                          Thanks for the info. about the more modern European machines. I worked at Rocketdyne in Ca. and we had the first Digital control Kemppi (no longer sold in the US) mig weld system to weld the Chromoly jacket around the expendable launch vehicles, it was great. I'm also familiar with EWM (not sold in the US). My old boss at Astro-Arc Polysoude was the CEO at EWM. My main complaint was an ESAB machine (think Dynasty 200) I had which didn't come with the foot control. The price as an after sales accessory was somewhere near $900.00. Hope your machines come with them standard.

                          I will also say that I believe that the technology in European designs is quite sophisticated. The noise control of the arc and things like Time-Wire from Fronius are really something else.

                          Stillwelding

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                          • #14
                            Stillwelding -

                            You worked for AAP? I was just there last week.

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                            • #15
                              Esab tigs

                              I had an Esab Heliarc 160i and as Stillwelding said,the foot control is a problem.You can get one for relatively cheap,but you cant set max amperage with it.If you want to be able to do that,you need to buy the $700-900 one that has a separate potentiometer on it.Otherwise,the foot control goes from zero to max amperage.Not a big fan of that,

                              Frank
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