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Correct pattern for welding tubing?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by CalRewireMatt View Post
    Stick welds arent legal for use.
    For use where??????????? Whoever made that rule must know nothing about welding if they are referring to strength. That's an absurd statement. (not meaning you)
    Jim

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    • #17
      nhra...mild steel can be migged or tigged and 4130 moly must be tigged...i can tell you from my own personal experience i use an .030 er70s2 in my mig for welding cages if the money isnt right...if the money is right or its for a friend even the mild steel gets tig welded...the advice some of these guys are giving you is dead on the money...i used to pull with half moons myself but after doing destruction tests myself (i was a lab rat at a steel tubing mill for 3yrs) on my own welds lets just say i switched to pushing...you can get real nice looking welds even pushing if you practice enough...i just had an nhra inspector here at my house yesterday to do a 25.5 cert (good to 7.50 in the quarter mile) for me on my buddies proe85 car we just finished...i also use er70s2 for the tig when doing cages with 2% reds...

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      • #18
        Mig Chassis Welding

        Originally posted by jpmachado View Post
        I'm in the process of building a chassis with a lot of tubing in it. The tubing is about the same size as you are inquiring about. I TIG welded it all for the very reasons people have mentioned (quality of penetration and being able to better see what I was doing). HOWEVER, it took a very long time. Also, I was watching the 24/7 on HBO that showed them building the NASCAR chassis. I saw they seemed to be MIG welding everything. Next time I build a chassis I would love to MIG in an effort to move a little faster. I'm only a hobbiest, but it sometimes gets hard to stay motivated when you have hours and hours of just welding after everything is tacked up.

        I'd love to see some video of someone welding. I can read all I want to, but I find (especially in welding type applications) seeing someone do it correctly is of much more benefit.

        Thanks
        JP
        MIG welding works great when you're building a chassis such as a stock car,which is truly "over built" and have a ton of tubing. We've built a few where we TIG welded the entire chassis~it saved just over six pounds -just from the smaller TIG beads-but it simply takes too much time considering the life of one of these race cars. We've sent both chassis (TIG and MIG) to testing facilities which perform torsional stiffness and rigidity tests on them, and they get virtually the same numbers.

        Hope this helps!

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        • #19
          TIG or MIG only.

          Originally posted by Jim-TX View Post
          For use where??????????? Whoever made that rule must know nothing about welding if they are referring to strength. That's an absurd statement. (not meaning you)
          You simply don't use stick welding in motorsports....it's just not done.

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          • #20
            Thanks for the explanation. I understand now.

            It's still seems a little ironic that for a lot of non motorsports applications stick is preferred by many where penetration and strength are critical.
            Jim

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            • #21
              they are trying to make the track safer by not allowing anyone with a 150 dollar buzz box from building a car that will pass cert...although i snuck through the cracks because i cant weld for crap but i do have a mig and a tig...

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              • #22
                Roll Cage Welding

                I welded a ton of roll cages for stock cars over the years, 1 3/4 round .088 for
                the main cage and .065 for some non-safety peripheral items.

                The key is to have a good fit. You can buy or build a notcher. We built our own.

                While .030 sounds like the right choice for wire, I have had great results with .035. Pull or push with an in and out pattern, no need to weave just turn the heat up a notch. Knock on wood, (or steel) I have never broken a weld and of course have had my share of wrecks.

                Scott
                http://www.welders360.com/

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by cupfab View Post
                  You simply don't use stick welding in motorsports....it's just not done.
                  You big boys don't but some of the local hobby stock or dirt track guys do. I just gutted the cage from an entry level NWAAS car that was booger welded with a little buzz box. And it had passed tech at all the tracks in the area. Scary dangerous.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Vegas Racer View Post
                    You big boys don't but some of the local hobby stock or dirt track guys do. I just gutted the cage from an entry level NWAAS car that was booger welded with a little buzz box. And it had passed tech at all the tracks in the area. Scary dangerous.
                    Thats why most reputable sanctioning bodies dont allow stick welded ANYTHING. Point being that MIG and TIG are much better for inspecting than a stick weld. Granted ask a pipe fitter why we are talking crap about mission critical welds done with a stick but its true. Most guys that dont even attempt to buy a CHEAP mig probably cant be trusted to make a decent stick weld.

                    Metal fusion is secondary to the capabilty of an inspector to determine if the metal is truly fused.

                    I just had a guy from the shop next to me ask if I could tig and fix a 500 dollar steering wheel from a shifter kart that broke at a spoke. I told him to chuck it cause it was beyond saving without stripping the leather off off the wheel, grind every weld and do it over. He understood when I said that the metal should have failed NOT the weld.

                    Point being made is that in motorsports, peoples lives are at risk. Granted certain poorer areas of the country may turn a blind eye to weld quality in my parts you dont get by with buzz box welds and I dont think Id be ok with it even if they did.

                    Demolition derbys aka hobby stock can do what they want. Im planning on taking turns at over 130mph, I hope that I as well as everyone else next to me consider the quality of chassis construction as important as I do.
                    Last edited by CalRewireMatt; 05-14-2010, 11:50 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Heat as an insulator

                      Hi guys new to the forums -greetings to all. A concept i had hard time getting my head around was explained to me in a miller service course. You push mig because if you drag the slightly cooled weld acts like an insulator and you are just adding to the top of the weld not fusing to the base metal. Think about it. They taught "if its got slag you drag". So for tig or solid mig pushing gives the best result.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by STRENGTH AND POWER View Post
                        I'd be interested in seeing < 2" MIG action
                        sorry i havn't been on in awail. and i'll take a pipe mig picture for you. i have a pipe fix i need to do this weekend.
                        TB 325
                        TB 302
                        dynasty 200sd
                        spoolmatic 30a/wc24
                        suitcase x-treme 12vs
                        miller 211
                        evolution rage 2

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TWODOGS58 View Post
                          Hi guys new to the forums -greetings to all. A concept i had hard time getting my head around was explained to me in a miller service course. You push mig because if you drag the slightly cooled weld acts like an insulator and you are just adding to the top of the weld not fusing to the base metal. Think about it. They taught "if its got slag you drag". So for tig or solid mig pushing gives the best result.
                          but you're not draging if you're doing vert. up. or would that be still moving away from the slag?
                          TB 325
                          TB 302
                          dynasty 200sd
                          spoolmatic 30a/wc24
                          suitcase x-treme 12vs
                          miller 211
                          evolution rage 2

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TWODOGS58 View Post
                            Hi guys new to the forums -greetings to all. A concept i had hard time getting my head around was explained to me in a miller service course. You push mig because if you drag the slightly cooled weld acts like an insulator and you are just adding to the top of the weld not fusing to the base metal. Think about it. They taught "if its got slag you drag". So for tig or solid mig pushing gives the best result.
                            Pushing also keeps your shielding gas in the area ahead of the weld as well as the weld itself. This is where your shield is most needed.
                            Sometimes there's no second chances.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              500 dollar Shifter kart Steering wheel? I have been racing shifter karts for over 16 yrs, Shifter kart steering wheels cost at the most 125 dollars!

                              Originally posted by CalRewireMatt View Post
                              Thats why most reputable sanctioning bodies dont allow stick welded ANYTHING. Point being that MIG and TIG are much better for inspecting than a stick weld. Granted ask a pipe fitter why we are talking crap about mission critical welds done with a stick but its true. Most guys that dont even attempt to buy a CHEAP mig probably cant be trusted to make a decent stick weld.

                              Metal fusion is secondary to the capabilty of an inspector to determine if the metal is truly fused.

                              I just had a guy from the shop next to me ask if I could tig and fix a 500 dollar steering wheel from a shifter kart that broke at a spoke. I told him to chuck it cause it was beyond saving without stripping the leather off off the wheel, grind every weld and do it over. He understood when I said that the metal should have failed NOT the weld.

                              Point being made is that in motorsports, peoples lives are at risk. Granted certain poorer areas of the country may turn a blind eye to weld quality in my parts you dont get by with buzz box welds and I dont think Id be ok with it even if they did.

                              Demolition derbys aka hobby stock can do what they want. Im planning on taking turns at over 130mph, I hope that I as well as everyone else next to me consider the quality of chassis construction as important as I do.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hey there I have miged similar things with 0.35 wire and for me I use alittle bit more heat then I do on flat welds. For me I almost run the weld down hand with my gun pointed slightly up so that when I get down towards the bottom of the pipe(or the bottom ride) I can twist my wrist down to get around more of the tube to do it in less tries.

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