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  • #16
    jsfab and boddybagger

    you two men are 100% correct, what you have said really spells it out, i have a llc, and a policy, being a small business, the llc and corporate stuff does not offer much protection, if i messed up and hurt someone the llc would be ripped thru with ease to get to me in the court room, any one can sue anyone so if there is a frivolous law suit, the guy with insurance calls his agent and it goes on from there, if you DONT have insurance you are in a real mess, you will need to retain an attorney, he will want a retainer, frivolous suits generally sue for at least a 6 didget figure, take a guess on what that retaining fee would be, read the 2 previous post, they are right on. good luck with your venture, but dont go uninsured. kevin

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    • #17
      I have a portable welding truck and I have my Truck insurance, for 1,200 a year, my liability insurance of $1,000,000 coverage for $6,900 a year. and property liability of 5,000,000 coverage for $15,000 A year a total of $23,100.

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      • #18
        Food for thought:

        If you are a contractor and you weld something that either breaks and ends up maiming or killing someone, or requires expensive rework (up to and including demolition and rebuilding) because you made bad welds that day, I have bad news for for you.

        There is a VERY GOOD chance that your general liability coverage policy specifically excludes this, and you can legally be denied coverage.

        Before you go thinking your general liability covers everything that happens to you in the course of doing business, ask yourself this question:

        10 or 15 years ago, did you assume that your homeowner's policy covered flood damage?

        Well, now we all are wiser and even kindergartners know flood damage is almost always excluded and requires (expensive) separate flood insurance.

        If a loss is caused by professional misjudgment, error, or omission, it will generally only be covered by contractor's errors and omission.

        Much the same way that a surgeon's general liability policy will not cover him if he cuts off the wrong leg... that is only covered by medical malpractice insurance.

        In insurance, as well as legal matters, assumptions can be very expensive.

        http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

        80% of failures are from 20% of causes
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        • #19
          Originally posted by m.k.swelding View Post
          I have a portable welding truck and I have my Truck insurance, for 1,200 a year, my liability insurance of $1,000,000 coverage for $6,900 a year. and property liability of 5,000,000 coverage for $15,000 A year a total of $23,100.
          This sounds high, extremely high. Unless there's something special about the insurance market in Maine, I'd be shopping around. Seriously, I read several of your posts about hourly rates,,,, that's insane, for what you are charging. Please expain further, the costs and coverages you have.

          Originally posted by Bodybagger View Post
          Food for thought:

          If you are a contractor and you weld something that either breaks and ends up maiming or killing someone, or requires expensive rework (up to and including demolition and rebuilding) because you made bad welds that day, I have bad news for for you.

          There is a VERY GOOD chance that your general liability coverage policy specifically excludes this, and you can legally be denied coverage.

          Before you go thinking your general liability covers everything that happens to you in the course of doing business, ask yourself this question:

          10 or 15 years ago, did you assume that your homeowner's policy covered flood damage?

          Well, now we all are wiser and even kindergartners know flood damage is almost always excluded and requires (expensive) separate flood insurance.

          If a loss is caused by professional misjudgment, error, or omission, it will generally only be covered by contractor's errors and omission.

          Much the same way that a surgeon's general liability policy will not cover him if he cuts off the wrong leg... that is only covered by medical malpractice insurance.

          In insurance, as well as legal matters, assumptions can be very expensive.

          http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us
          General liability, usually covers you for whatever "accidents" might happen, when you are on site. "Completed operations,",,,, Or "Product liability",,,, will cover you for damages after the fact.
          Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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          • #20
            OK first thing I know in business is where liability is concerned or possibly concerned, distance yourself and personal property by creating a buisness CORP or LLC.
            "IWeldSTUFF LLC" is like its own person to the law.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company

            A good place for help is the Small Business Association, they give free help and mentoring. http://www.sba.gov/

            If you do this correctly you can not lose your home and personal bank accounts due to business failure, not true in case of businesses created for the purpose of fraud. But good for accidental injury and property damage. You will be required to maintain your local licensing for what ever work you are doing, ie: contractor ect. and insurances the local laws require. This may not be much and may be a massive amount depending on your local laws.

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            • #21
              Well first off all you need to answer few questions. How much do you have invested in your project, are you and your staff certified and licensed (if applicable), how long have you been in this business, what is your accident history, have you ever been sued, how much would it cost to replace something that one of your men might destroy in the course of business, etc.
              Sometimes insurance is to much expensive, you need to talk to attorney, that cost lot of money, so analyze your risk and cost and then decide for insurance.

              so you just need to decide that does insurance cover your damages and you have enough profits?
              steel bar steel supplier

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              • #22
                There are a ton of guys out there that are doing various fab on rigs...I do and I work on off road rigs. That said, I would not do a cage for anyone, anytime under any circumstances.

                Jeep sells the wranglers with what is calls a 'Sport Bar'. Call it a roll bar or cage and get out of the way of the law suits. That is WHY Jeep does not call it a roll bar, simple as that.

                You need to remember what the cage does: It is there to save you life or prevent serious injury in the event of roll over. If they die or become seriously injured in SPITE of the fact that: They were driving off road at night, UNDER the influence and past the DUI std, lights off, on posted property, and drove off a 50' drop off...has NOTHING to do with it. YOUR cage/roll bar failed!!!!

                If you are a CERTIFIED welder then they OWN you. Non-certified welders generally have less liability in many cases.
                Don
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                • #23
                  I've had insurance for the last 21 years and very thankfull that I have never had to use it other than auto accidents.

                  JS Fab and Body Bagger are right.

                  Liability insurance covers you while your doing the work and say the car catches on fire.

                  In the case of a Roll Bar you need what my insurance company call completed operations which covers you after the car leaves your garage.

                  I friend that has been doing cages for the last 8 years and is now up to the level of cars as fast as 7 seconds.
                  He says he hates doing them now ( The cool factor has worn off ) but he does them to support his race car habit.

                  I never do them because theres no real money at it unless you have a reputation at the pro level.

                  I can make way more money building hand rails than roll bars ever paid.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bodybagger View Post
                    The burden of proof in civil cases is "a preponderance of the evidence," or in other words, can a jury of schmucks with absolutely no understanding of mechanics be convinced (or confused) that there is more than a 50% chance that the plaintiff is right.
                    Careful there.

                    The right answer is to talk to a lawyer. It may be as simple as your buddies or whomever signing a waver. Something like "The car is not suitable to be moved - if you do actually move the car (under its own power or otherwise) all warantees are null and void and the mover assumes all liabilities"

                    Some states you pay percentage of the fault. For instance - a certain drunk baseball player just signs a $20Mil/year contract for 5 years. Hits a tow truck on the side of the road that was picking up a disabled car. The family of the deseased baseball player sues the tow truck owner, operator, owner of car sitting on side of road etc. Why? Well if they can prove that they are even 1% at fault, the family will collect .01 x $20Mil X 5years or $1Mil. Did the tow truck driver delay at all? Take a sip from cup of coffee? etc etc.

                    As for setting up LLC or partnerships or other such business entities - remember, if a business gets sued, so does the president of the business. And if your dumb enough to put your wife as president (minority owned?) you expose not only you, your wife, but all your combined assets. Again, talk to a lawyer, talk to him about truely limiting your liability.
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