Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums

  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chemical Safety Article

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Chemical Safety Article

    A message board member/viewer sent me this safety story to post on the forums. The article states that brake cleaner can break down into a harmful gas. Here is the link: http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

  • #2
    Originally posted by Admin View Post
    A message board member/viewer sent me this safety story to post on the forums. The article states that brake cleaner can break down into a harmful gas. Here is the link: http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
    ... into phosgene -- which first gained world wide infamy in 1915
    in the trenches of the Western Front. It was used as a chemical
    weapon in WW-1, low concentrations are very toxic -- which is what
    made it useful as a chemical weapon

    Nasty stuff.

    Thanks for posting the article

    frank

    Comment


    • #3
      Not to discredit the post by any means. but how does he know there was not some other contaminate on the metal besides the brake cleaner? Mike

      Comment


      • #4
        what next is gonna go bad on the market.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by crawdaddy View Post
          Not to discredit the post by any means. but how does he know there was not some other contaminate on the metal besides the brake cleaner? Mike
          Crawdaddy,
          Not to be a wise guy, but if there were even the slightest chance this were true why would you care about other contaminants when the chemical used was brake cleaner? All of the injuries that were mentioned are fairly permanent. My thoughts would be no brake cleaner ever!!!!
          Nick

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by crawdaddy View Post
            Not to discredit the post by any means. but how does he know there was not some other contaminate on the metal besides the brake cleaner? Mike
            That's a bit like wondering if formaldehyde fumes are causing sick-building syndrome inside the execution chamber on death row.

            I'm sure there were at least traces of many other things, but they were obviously in concentrations multiple orders of magnitude lower than the chlorinated organic solvent that was saturating the surface.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kiwi View Post
              Crawdaddy,
              Not to be a wise guy, but if there were even the slightest chance this were true why would you care about other contaminants when the chemical used was brake cleaner? All of the injuries that were mentioned are fairly permanent. My thoughts would be no brake cleaner ever!!!!
              Nick
              That is probably a good idea not to use brake cleaner,But my point is There is no proof the brake cleaner actually caused the problem described by the original poster,no way you can say without doing baseline testing on the part first to determine what was or was not present and in what concentrations, And how many welders can be certain that the metal they are working with has not been exposed to a variety of contaminates during its service life before they recieve the project, you have no way of knowing without a chain of custody documenting where that part has been and what was done to it.Mike

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bodybagger View Post
                That's a bit like wondering if formaldehyde fumes are causing sick-building syndrome inside the execution chamber on death row.

                I'm sure there were at least traces of many other things, but they were obviously in concentrations multiple orders of magnitude lower than the chlorinated organic solvent that was saturating the surface.
                Isnt most brake cleaner non chlorinated now by law?.Mike

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by crawdaddy View Post
                  Isnt most brake cleaner non chlorinated now by law?.Mike
                  Yes, unfortunately, the good stuff, as usual, is no longer available. We get the "new and improved" stuff now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dont mean to be a doubting Thomas,But people are taking this guys post about his bad experience and treating it like the guy did a controlled scientific experiment.Just like the alleged workers pissing in the Corona beer one person starts it and everyone takes it for fact.Mike

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by crawdaddy View Post
                      Dont mean to be a doubting Thomas,But people are taking this guys post about his bad experience and treating it like the guy did a controlled scientific experiment.Just like the alleged workers pissing in the Corona beer one person starts it and everyone takes it for fact.Mike
                      True

                      But the points (at least, the points that _I_ get) are

                      - pay close attention to the stuff we use (in the case of this article,
                      brake cleaner). Some of it can be Real Bad JuJu.

                      - while there may be mystery gunk on the metal already --- why
                      add to the gunkiness?

                      frank

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by crawdaddy View Post
                        Isnt most brake cleaner non chlorinated now by law?.Mike
                        No. They no longer contain CFC's (ChloroFlouroCarbons), but most still contain chlorinated solvents. If the listr of ingredients or the MSDS has any chemical containing "chloro" (or related word parts), it is chlorinated.

                        For example, the current brakleen: http://www.fastenal.com/web/msds/getmsds.ex?sku=63337

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The reaction occurs where chlorinated brake cleaner Argon and heat combine. The guy was seriously screwed up by the reaction, and from the story it was a tiny bit of gas. Take the warning and be safe instead of sorry. Non-chlorinated brake cleaner is easy to find, buy why bother when you can use isopropyl alcohol?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Not argon. The UV and/or high arc temperature (either may begin the process) facilitates the breakdown of many chlorinated solvents to form phosgene in the lower temperature regions outside, but near, the arc.

                            The wikipedia page on phosgene is reasonably accurate. See also http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp
                            http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0504.pdf
                            http://www.cdc.gov/Niosh/idlh/75445.html

                            Note that the odor is not generally apparent until the concentration is about 0.5PPM, well in excess of the PEL of 0.1PPM, and is near the IDLH value of 2PPM. (PEL Permissible Exposure Limit; IDLH: Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Laiky View Post
                              from the story it was a tiny bit of gas.
                              Phosgene is seriously bad stuff... Like I said in an earlier post,
                              it really gained notoriety in WW1 as a chemical warfare agent.
                              If it was used in CW, then it's safe to assume that it's pretty
                              bad, and pretty bad in pretty small doses...

                              Btw, organo-phosphates (phosphorus based organic chemicals)
                              are another big family of CW compounds.They are used today
                              in insecticides (parathion, malathion, etc). Given the bad-effects
                              in small-doses properties that make for a good CW agent,
                              one might also wish to take some extra care when working
                              with material that might have these things on/around them.

                              As what's-his-name said "let's be careful out there"

                              Frank

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X
                              Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.