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HARD CORE CHEVY DUDES: I need help!!

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  • HARD CORE CHEVY DUDES: I need help!!

    My Brother called today and he has an aluminum block brought to his machine shop that another machine shop severally screwed up.
    It is a ZO-6 Corvette "427". The other shop pressed a new sleeve into a cylinder with too much interference and cracked it in about 4 places on a couple of cylinders and then called the customer and said tough luck
    He (my brother) has a big enuff machine for the job but doesn't have a cooler on it. He would like for me to try and fix it.
    My question is does anyone know what material this block is made out of??
    This is a higher stressed area and I would like to get it right the first time if I'm gonna go thru all the pre and post heating hassle.
    I also understand that this is a relatively expensive block so it should be a pretty good chunk of change if I can voodoo it back into one piece
    I do big castings all the time but at this time I am open to any and all suggestions on filler material and procedures too. I don't want any surprises here just success....my family name is riding on this one
    BTW, I ain't got no oven so don't go there

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  • #2
    I would say the "other" shop should cough up a new block, they screwed it up. Just my thought. I have fixed screw ups from some machine shops over the years since it was their fault and they made it right...Bob
    Bob Wright

    Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
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    Comment


    • #3
      I am a ford guy, but I would never try to fix a block like that.

      I would call darton and see if this would work, their MID system.

      http://www.darton-international.com/sl_mid.htm


      If that was a standard 300hp motor then I would say go for it, but its not.
      mm 210
      dynasty 200dx

      Comment


      • #4
        Whole thing sounds kinda odd, the shop that botched it in the first place should pay unless it was a "Cash" job.

        Thats what shop insurance is supposed to be for.

        I think the block is cast aluminum. Funny they didn't ceramic coat the exsisting sleeve and rebore it as apposed to jamming in a new sleeve.

        Comment


        • #5
          i cant see how the shop could just say ooops oh well we tried, have a nice day. oh and enjoy the broken part.
          i would be in jail right now if it was my block and they stuck to the tuff luck stand.
          i cant help with the repair but wish ya luck with it.
          thanks for the help
          ......or..........
          hope i helped
          sigpic
          feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
          summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
          JAMES

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          • #6
            i UNDERSTAND ALL THAT!!! But does anybody know the material?? As for whether or not to do it? from my point of view of course I'm gonna try it.
            The guy got screwed for sure and he might be suing the other guys for all I know but even then somebody is gonna try to save this puppy someday anyhow just because of what it is. If I found it in the junkpile I would drag it home and give it a whirl for sure...basically an aluminum big block.
            Superdave... its gonna get a sleeve, but you still have to weld it before you can do that. The sleeve will be a special size on those cylinders also.
            If this was a aftermarket block no question about doing it and this one is pretty out of the ordinary.
            Thanks for all the replies anyways!!
            We might not have any hardcore late model 'vette guys on this forum
            I may have to go over to WW

            www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
            MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
            Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
            Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

            Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
            Miller 30-A Spoolgun
            Miller WC-115-A
            Miller Spectrum 300
            Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
            Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

            Comment


            • #7
              The MID system is not a standard sleeve.

              here is a pic. If the block is cracked on the outside then good luck cuz im sure that thing is super thick but if its on the inside the MID may work but its pricey.

              I just think it would suck even more to weld it up and have it not work and then your out your 2k block plus 6k for the rest of the motor.

              http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te.../photo_09.html
              mm 210
              dynasty 200dx

              Comment


              • #8
                where exactly is it cracked?
                mm 210
                dynasty 200dx

                Comment


                • #9
                  All I can find is it is cast aluminum with pressed in sleeves.
                  mm 210
                  dynasty 200dx

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It has to be welded to be saved.

                    www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                    MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                    Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                    Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                    Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                    Miller WC-115-A
                    Miller Spectrum 300
                    Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                    Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fusion King,
                      Well since nobody else has helped, I will try. I checked the drawing for the block in question, and its cast from plain old 356, heat treated to the T-6 condition. So that means:
                      1-Preheat to 275 F for about an hour
                      2-Weld using 4043 filler and limit the amperage to about 200
                      3-Return to the oven for an additional hour after welding, then let it cool in the oven after turning it off.
                      This is a common practice to weld on 356 engine castings, done all the time on aircraft engines, and automotive. Good Luck!
                      -Aaron
                      "Better Metalworking Through Research"

                      Miller Dynasty 300DX
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                      Miller Spot Welder
                      Motor-Guard stud welder

                      Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aerometalworker View Post
                        Fusion King,
                        Well since nobody else has helped, I will try. I checked the drawing for the block in question, and its cast from plain old 356, heat treated to the T-6 condition. So that means:
                        1-Preheat to 275 F for about an hour
                        2-Weld using 4043 filler and limit the amperage to about 200
                        3-Return to the oven for an additional hour after welding, then let it cool in the oven after turning it off.
                        This is a common practice to weld on 356 engine castings, done all the time on aircraft engines, and automotive. Good Luck!
                        -Aaron

                        Thanks Aero

                        strange tho...just got off the phone with chevy parts guy and they said it was 319-T5. (before I came home and read your post BTW)
                        If so, that sorta changes everything. 4043 would work still tho.
                        Waiting for the Alco-tec tech boys to call back on their filler recommendations at the time.

                        www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                        Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                        MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                        Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                        Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                        Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                        Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                        Miller WC-115-A
                        Miller Spectrum 300
                        Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                        Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well I know the latest LS series is sold as being 319, yet every time I scan a part here at work its 356 or something else. In any event the same filler is normally used with all of those alloys in that family.
                          "Better Metalworking Through Research"

                          Miller Dynasty 300DX
                          Miller Dynasty 200DX
                          Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
                          Miller Millermatic Passport

                          Miller Spot Welder
                          Motor-Guard stud welder

                          Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Alco-tech engineer called back and said 4145 filler with NO pre-heat and at room temp. Only do small amounts and don't let heat build.
                            Possibly even PEEN bead only.
                            Wildest out of the box thinking that I've heard in a long time.
                            I called them because I met the regional manager and I knew he went to Bonnevile speed weeks every year and done a bunch of high tech repairs for that crowd. He happened to be on the phone with whom he considered the best authority he knew on this and tranferred all my info to him. He is the tech guy for Alcotec on fillers/wires etc and has his own biz doing this very thing and was familiar with this block already.

                            Before you get all worked up my brother was going on about some company doing top-Fuel block repairs etc and they are submerging blocks except for the weld area and welding them.
                            I guess it's all about controlling HAZ.
                            Anyhow brother may go ahead and do this himself and upgrade his stuff as needed anyway. He lives about a 100 or so miles from me. So it would be a hassle for me to do it anyways.

                            www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                            MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                            Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                            Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                            Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                            Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                            Miller WC-115-A
                            Miller Spectrum 300
                            Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                            Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well as I recall 319 does have about 4% copper and about 6% silicon, so 4145 would be more appropriate. However the question still exists of the actual block alloy. I do have some 4145 if you ever need any, last time I bought it it was $26 a pound. The process of welding cold is interesting, and not something I would normally even consider. I wonder if he is suggesting that to preserve the heat-treat in the surrounding material as much as possible? One would think the best bet would be to have the part re-heat treated after welding. Im still questioning the stain gradients with welding a high silicon/copper casting cold, since the entire part is going to "freeze" at about the same moment unlike using a high silicon filler on a low silicon base metal (i.e. 4043 on 6061 ). In the aircraft world we weld cases, and cylinder heads all the time, normally the cases are 356 and the heads are commonly a242, and eveything is pre-heated to various temperatures depending on heat treatment to avoid stress fractures. Its been done that way for many years. I would be very interested to see case studies of the "cold welding" method on cast material, if there are none....it would make me wonder.
                              -Aaron
                              "Better Metalworking Through Research"

                              Miller Dynasty 300DX
                              Miller Dynasty 200DX
                              Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
                              Miller Millermatic Passport

                              Miller Spot Welder
                              Motor-Guard stud welder

                              Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

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