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Mig or Tig for auto stuff

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  • #16
    Try .023 MIG wire on body panels

    If you are looking at a MIG machine try the MM180 or MM252. Both machines have good voltage control when compared to a tap-style welder like the MM212. Some .023 wire could be best for 22g to 16g and .035 wire for 14g and thicker. Don't try to feed .023 wire through a standard MIG gun longer than 12 feet. Ten feet would really be ideal for the little wire. Try using a 2# or 10# roll of wire for household projects.
    The steel has to be much cleaner for TIG welding and doesn't work very good on galvanized items due to spatter.
    Last edited by deafman; 09-14-2008, 12:19 AM. Reason: clarity

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    • #17
      [QUOTE=Bodybagger;158501]
      Anyway, for the newbie - get a MIG and master it before stepping up to TIG. /QUOTE]

      I agree with this. MIG first. Learn TIG on the uncle's Synchro.
      Maxstar 200DX
      Maxstar 300DX
      Dynasty 200DX
      Passport
      Spectrum 701
      LMSW-52 spot welder

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      • #18
        I agree, you have the uncle with the fancy tig, why duplicate and mig is really the workhorse for most small shops. I have a specialized need for a tig but its the least used process in the shop and more and more with spool gun I could pretty much get by without it. Collects a lot of dust while the migs get used every day.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by deafman View Post
          If you are looking at a MIG machine try the MM180 or MM252. Both machines have good voltage control when compared to a tap-style welder like the MM212.

          could you or someone else clarify this. I dont understand why the 252 or 180 is better. I am a newb remember. lol


          Also, I found a mm210 that looks brand new (he says 3yrs old ) with a 3035 spool gun and small gas cyl for 1300. Is that a good deal or not or should I pass and try to find a 252.
          mm 210
          dynasty 200dx

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          • #20
            nfinch86- CANADIAN WELDOR

            I' ve been in the Welding Industry 40 yrs.- Buy a good Mig Machine and use .023 Wire Great for Thin Metal., .030 or .035 for anything thicker with Multipile Passes. Norm:
            sigpic
            Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

            - Arcair- K 4000 CAC.

            - LN-25 Wire Feeder

            - Lincoln Ranger 8- Engine Drive- CC\CV:



            - Lincoln Power Mig 180C
            - Spoolgun.
            - DeWalt Chop Saw .
            - DeWalt Compressor - 13cfm, @ 100 psi.

            www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

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            • #21
              nfinch86- CANADIAN WELDOR

              [QUOTE=superdave99gt;158573]could you or someone else clarify this. I dont understand why the 252 or 180 is better. I am a newb remember. lol


              Also, I found a mm210 that looks brand new (he says 3yrs old ) with a 3035 spool gun and small gas cyl for 1300. Is that a good deal or not or should I pass and try to find a 252.[/Q : The Difference between Tapped Control & Continuos is with Tapped you have specific settings, with Continuos you have Infinite Control or Settings; Norm
              sigpic
              Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

              - Arcair- K 4000 CAC.

              - LN-25 Wire Feeder

              - Lincoln Ranger 8- Engine Drive- CC\CV:



              - Lincoln Power Mig 180C
              - Spoolgun.
              - DeWalt Chop Saw .
              - DeWalt Compressor - 13cfm, @ 100 psi.

              www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

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              • #22
                Although you have had alot of good advise, I will throw in my .02. Most Auto makers recommend MIG for HSS Body panels and frame work. Mig is fairly easy to learn, I would recommend practicing for at least 2-3 months on sheet metal and steel from 1/8" to 3/8" thick before embarking on an auto project. Work on out of position welds as well as most of the time you will not be working on a flat surface and probably will be standing on your head while you do it. Oh, and most important, learn how to tell the difference between 20, 18, 16, and 14 gauge materials, it will save you a world of hurt once you put wire to metal.

                John
                John


                Millermatic DVI
                Millermatic 375 xtreme
                And a brand new Syncro 200!!!

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                • #23
                  The statement that stick can't be used for body panels isn't exactly correct. Back in the mid 70's (when stick was all I had or could afford) I stick welded a chopped top on a 40 Chevy Panel Truck with a 180 Lincoln. Granted it was an old vehicle so it was heavy gauge but it worked. Never cracked & warpage was minimal. I packed the back side of the panel with wet rags & went slow with spot welds.

                  {Wouldn't even consider it today, but sometimes you do what you have to**

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                  • #24
                    I really like taps better. On my SP, B, C, D, thin, medium and thick, use 3 settings on the machine, very easy. My 255 has infinate, big pain in the rear.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Craig in Denver View Post
                      I'm a TIG fan. If you can afford the Dynasty 200DX, you'll be set for a long time. It will not hold you back. And it will do thin alum, a MIG will NOT. MIG is faster on mild steel and works very well for panel replacement (LOTS of tack welds). There's no way in Hades that you're going to do body panels with stick. The Dynasty will do anything that needs to be done with stick electrodes, but you can't; because it's really, really hard.

                      One thing that you have NO clue. Welding is VERY difficult. You don't just buy ANY welder and start welding. I'm in my third welding class, basic MIG sheet metal, O/A and TIG this time; and I embarrass myself EVERY night ; I started O/A welding in 1977. Welding is a VERY difficult art form, learned over years of experience.

                      You need both, a TIG and a high quality MIG. I'd start with the TIG.

                      Edit: TIG will do very well on suspension stuff, IF YOU HIRE SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT.

                      Good luck Rookie, maintain your sense of humor; because you're going to need it.

                      Welcome to the incredibly complex world of Welding.
                      The picture is the Dodge Assembly line building Carryalls. The body was stick welded. The welder in the picture is welding on 16ga interior panels with stick. I dont share this ability nor care to try stick welding 16 ga, but it was done on the lines back then. When I rebuilt my Carryall, you could see all the welds had been ground smooth with NO Lead or filler. I cheated and used my Miller 250X with .023 wire. I cant imagine the skill level needed to weld 16ga with stick.

                      Paul

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                      • #26
                        Carryall picture, 1942 or 43 no text

                        Picture 1942 or 1943

                        Paul

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                        • #27
                          One non weld cert car nut's opinions. I weld thin and even very thin* sheet all the time with the little MIG and big stuff with the big MIG. MIG is a good place to start with welding. If you get further into welding owning the MIG will not be regreted if you purchase a TIG. I knock out a lot with a punny little Miller 135 120V machine using .023 wire but go to the 251 for the heavy stuff. I save the TIG for when looks matter or the metal dictates. Last night I Migged up a foot well framework for a throttle cable using the MM135. Added a base plate in the footwell that was welded up beforhand with the MM251 and then made a curved Al plate with a spring holder for the motor end of the cable using the Sync 250. (The spring takes up any stress from overloading the cable but still lets me ajust the system for full 100% wide open throttle) All the above could have been done with the MM135 if preped the thicker steel work right and used steel rather than Al on the throttle guide.



                          Workshop work on cars with no need to take the machine on the road. 220V MIG to start new or used. Get a Tig later by watching for a great deal. Learn some welding, Learn about the machines and methods. Bide you time, keep an eye out and pounce on a great deal on the (used) machine you want. They come up for sale and I expect with the market like it is more now than ever. Miller machines are robust for the most part and are straight foward in function. Used does not mean used up.

                          For very thin sheet I made a gas and feed control. It lets me pulse spot the little MIG and with care and a little skill weld metal that is thinner than the spec inside the door.

                          There are MIG machines set up to braze metal as well. shoots wire but does not melt the base metals only the wire. Nice fast low(er) heat flat panel joints with little finishing.
                          Last edited by Vicegrip; 09-19-2008, 07:29 AM.
                          Weekend wannab racer with some welders.

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                          • #28
                            I found a used dyn 200dx for 2400 with everything needed except the bottle so I bought it.

                            I then found a mm210 local with tank, and 3035 spool gun and 6 al rolls for 1100 so I bought it too. It had never even had a steel roll hooked up to it. They used it for a couple al jobs and thats it.

                            Thanks for all the replies.
                            mm 210
                            dynasty 200dx

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pro70z28 View Post
                              The statement that stick can't be used for body panels isn't exactly correct. Back in the mid 70's (when stick was all I had or could afford) I stick welded a chopped top on a 40 Chevy Panel Truck with a 180 Lincoln. Granted it was an old vehicle so it was heavy gauge but it worked. Never cracked & warpage was minimal. I packed the back side of the panel with wet rags & went slow with spot welds.

                              {Wouldn't even consider it today, but sometimes you do what you have to**
                              I too have welded body panes with stick (because i had to), and as you say they were probably thicker gauge than what you would see today. Turned the heat way down and used 3/32 7018 downhand. Travel is really fast but it will work.

                              In my opinion any auto work is better suited to mig than tig.. especially if you are inexperienced. Tig requires a lot more skill and practise than mig.

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                              • #30

                                superdave99gt
                                I found a used dyn 200dx for 2400 with everything needed except the bottle so I bought it.

                                I then found a mm210 local with tank, and 3035 spool gun and 6 al rolls for 1100 so I bought it too. It had never even had a steel roll hooked up to it. They used it for a couple al jobs and thats it.

                                Thanks for all the replies.


                                you have it made. thats an excellent set, should cover all your needs. i suspect you will find the MM210 getting the most use. both top quality welders.
                                congrats on the new toys , enjoy.
                                thanks for the help
                                ......or..........
                                hope i helped
                                sigpic
                                feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                                summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                                JAMES

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