welding T1 steel?

[ssawyers]

I have some T1 steel plates for a low-boy trailer application. I'm needing to know what the best solid wire would be for the app. Also what temp of preheat and the best gas. The plates are 1 1/2" thick. Thanks Shane/Performance Welding and Machine

[calweld]

I don't know if there is a solid wire appropriate for T-1, I use a flux-cored, gas shielded wire, Tri-mark 991K2. If the situation demands preheat, keep it below 400 degrees F. 1 1/2" thick plates?? Preheat would probably be good. Trimark also has some E110T1 wires, may be more appropriate in your case??

[Darmik]

What I used at Aspen Trailers in Nisku was Flux core 3/32 with C02 and a 350f pre heat.I had the gun attached to a beetle on a track

:cool:

[precisionworks]

I've never seen solid wire used for T1, probably because the penetration is shallow & the deposition rate is awfully slow. It's normally joined with a gas shielded flux cored wire, like Dual Shield 7100 Ultra, using CO2 shield.

In the flat position, with 1/16 wire, you can run 455 amps & 500 inches per minute. The real advantage is when the joint needs six passes to build the fillet, which is not uncommon.

The dep rate is 18#/hour with Dual Shield, versus 9#/hour with solid wire, same amperage.

[Pile Buck]

Far as I can remember, (which is only yesterday):D I’ve only used 110-18 on T-1. Used 300° preheat, but in my opinion proper post heat will make or break ya!;) And I’m not using the word break loosely! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Coalsmoke]

I use a 7018 on T1, no need for anything higer untill you start getting into stuff like T400. I've never entertained the thought of solid wire on T1 myself.

[precisionworks]

I've seen a few recommendations to use at least an 80ksi electrode on T1. The material isn't hard to join, although thicker parts benefit from a power supply that can run in the 400 to 600 amp range. That allows running 1/16" or 3/32" gas shielded flux core with CO2, which is the most common wire run for T1 & AR plates.

It is possible to do this with a small (250 amp) machine. Just as it's possible to weld 1/2" plate with a 110v MIG. Not much fun in either case.

[BillC]

T-1 is a quenched and tempered alloy structural steel that comes in four grades equivalent to ASTM A514/A517 grades B, F, H, and Q. Mittal Steel owns the trademark "T-1".

Here is a link to Mittal Steel literature on ASTM-A514 / T-1
http://www.mittalsteel.com/documents/en/Inlandflats/ProductBrochure/MITTAL%20A514%20AND%20T-1.pdf

At the bottom of that page are links to more documents including a good document on how to weld T-1.

Regards,

[Pile Buck]

Very interesting reading Bill, thanks for posting those links!


Lets see,


Coalsmoke = 0

Pile Buck = Oh my god how many is that now?
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[calweld]

C'mon Carl, you're gonna give the poor kid some self-esteem issues, scar him for life:rolleyes: . I'm not seeing that fuzzy sensitive side of you much lately ;) ;)

[Coalsmoke]

Very interesting reading Bill, thanks for posting those links!


Lets see,


Coalsmoke = 0

Pile Buck = Oh my god how many is that now?
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I'm not reading that link, therefore I'm not wrong:p :D

Seriously though, I was off mark, I never looked at the link, but I just checked my steel sheets and you're right, with a min tensile of 110K and a yeild of 100K, 11018 would be a better suited choice. Stupid young bucks shooting off their mouth again:rolleyes: Anyways, I only deal with T QT and AR steels on equipment, and have never had a problem with 7018 yet. But, much of that stuff is overbuilt so there's fudge room. Also, with so much chinese stuff coming over now, much of it is just labeled HT100 or QT 100, and seeing how long that stuff does not last makes me think it is definitely sub-standard metal, and not a T100 or even T1 equivalent.

[Pile Buck]

Oh Coal has big shoulders! :p :D :D :D

[Coalsmoke]

C'mon Carl, you're gonna give the poor kid some self-esteem issues, scar him for life:rolleyes: . I'm not seeing that fuzzy sensitive side of you much lately ;) ;)

Yeah, no kidding eh:rolleyes: :D I think Carl must be missing out on that "bedroom play" in that Conan suit of his:D :D


Take it easy guys, its sunny here for a change, a very nice change.:cool:

[calweld]

Hey coal, just rereading this, realized you recommended welding 100,000 # + tensile steel with 70,000# tensile rod, on a lowboy??!!!:eek:

You were talking about that liability waiver on the other thread?? . . this would be a good place to use it!!!!:p :p

[Pile Buck]

Hey coal, just rereading this, realized you recommended welding 100,000 # + tensile steel with 70,000# tensile rod, on a lowboy??!!!:eek:

You were talking about that liability waiver on the other thread?? . . this would be a good place to use it!!!!:p :p

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! What took you so long, getting slow in your old age or what?????????? :D :D :D :D

[calweld]

Hahaha

Actually I was out working on a bid. Didn't discuss liability waivers, wasn't in the mood for ridicule. Maybe I'll stop by tomorrow and try to get the security guard to sign one??? :D :D

[Pile Buck]

Maybe I'll stop by tomorrow and try to get the security guard to sign one??? :D :D
How about the kid at the 7/11 when you pickup your morning coffee? :D :D

[calweld]

No English, "me no comprehende' ":rolleyes:

[Pile Buck]

No English, "me no comprehende' ":rolleyes:

Me and my buddy Ruben, (grew up together in Union City) we were headed into a tavern between Ripon and north Modesto right off Hwy 99, border patrol stepped out of their car ask Ruben for some ID. Just about 3.2 seconds after Ruben started in on them they could tell he was born in America:eek: :eek: :eek: ! Later I asked him if he ate with that mouth, all my years on the water front, I never heard such language!:rolleyes: :D

[precisionworks]

Liability waivers are worth the paper they're written on:eek:

And liability insurance is nearly impossible to get when working on a job like this...

The easiest approach is to have your name added to your customer's general liability policy, as an additional insured. If they refuse to do this, or if they have no insurance, walk away fast.

[Coalsmoke]

PileBuck, what can I say, if waiting for me to give you something to chuckle about, you need another hobby;)

Cal, keep an eye on them securities gaurds, never know when they might try to steal your business out from under you. ;) BTW, what are the tensile and yield numbers for that wire? I know there is special high tensile wire, nit sure how common it is though. Now, he is talking 1.5" plate or something along those lines, I would suspect that these are wear blocks of some sort, as its too thick for an average pin plate and...... I don't think a T1 splice into the rail member of a 50Kpsi frame would be passable, it sure as heck wouldn't be up here:rolleyes:

Barry, down there where the only thing more crooked than the laws is the mississippi river, waivers might not be worth much. BUT, up here its a completely different ball of wax. Judges take liability waivers seriously, you sign it, you accept responsibility, done deal. Just like a good legal system should work. Companies spend good money on waivers up here for reason more than to give lawyers something to do.

[BillC]

Very interesting reading Bill, thanks for posting those links! My pleasure... Several years ago one of my fellow students in welding class talked about welding T1 steel for a trailer. My background is machine design so my familiarity is tool steels. I could not understand why they would try to weld T1 tool steel. I later learned that there was a T-1 structural steel...:o

Regards,

[ssawyers]

Thanks for all the input! Local Lincoln rep said use 70s-6!:eek: I said I would leave it to a higher power(MILLER BOARD):D Seems that this topic has as many answers as cm steel filler choice.(everybody has a different one) Good article BillC. Thanks Shane

[calweld]

PileBuck, what can I say, if waiting for me to give you something to chuckle about, you need another hobby;)




Coal, we get plenty of chuckles from you:) , you make it almost too easy sometimes:D

From Trimark's data sheet:
TM-991K2 offers exceptional combination of properties for an all-position wire, with good low temperature
toughness combined with tensile strength in the 90,000-110,000 psi range. TM-991K2 is characterized by welder
appeal, with a smooth stable arc, low smoke and spatter levels. The quick-freezing slag is easily removed and
bead geometry in all positions is excellent. TM-991K2 is a superior choice for all-position work with many highstrength
low alloy steels, such as A514, A710, and HY-80. It is recommended for single-and multiple-pass welding
in all positions with 100% CO2 or 75% Ar/25% CO2 shielding gas.

The 110 wires have considerably more tensile strength, but suffer on elongation and Charpy tests, this is my "best fit" for everything T-1 or high-tensile truck frames, etc. Up til about 5 years ago I used only stick, kept a can of 11018 for these jobs.

[Coalsmoke]

Coal, we get plenty of chuckles from you:) , you make it almost too easy sometimes:D

From Trimark's data sheet:


The 110 wires have considerably more tensile strength, but suffer on elongation and Charpy tests, this is my "best fit" for everything T-1 or high-tensile truck frames, etc. Up til about 5 years ago I used only stick, kept a can of 11018 for these jobs.

Thanks for the Trimark info. I'll keep that stuff in mind. If I ever get a large job doing big gauge T or AR plate, I'll justify a feeder, but so far stick fits the bill. You know I got to make it easy for you guys to laugh at me sometimes, can't make it too hard on you old timers:D Heaven knows the day I stop laughing at myself will be the day I die. ;)

[precisionworks]

I'll justify a feeder, but so far stick fits the bill. I'll use stick if the job takes no more than half a dozen rods, otherwise the Suitcase 12-RC is the ticket. Even in the dark on a rainy night standing in mud, it takes no more than five minutes to set up, including loading whatever wire you choose.

I've been using Coreshield 11 in .045 & .063. Sweet running wire. The smaller size runs in the 15-18 volt range, larger size runs 17-19 volts. Don't ever try it or you'll end up with a Suitcase:D

[Pile Buck]

For you boys who keep talking about welding T-1 with a wire feed, it just didn’t give me a warm and fuzzy, and we all know I’m a warm and fuzzy type of guy:D . So I had to look it up. I think the last T-1 I welded was a fork for either a 966 or 988 loader. The fork broke right at the heel. Been so long now but seems as it was around 4-inches thick, and maybe 8 to 10-inches wide. And I used 110-18, far as I know the fork is still in service.

Anyway my point, and I’m sure Barry and Cal know this, but thought I would pass it on for those of you who don’t. Now this is right out of a Lincoln book called “Metals And How To Weld Them”.

It’s very important when welding T-1 not to build up too much heat. Which is very easy to do when running a wire feed, so just a bit of caution!;)

[calweld]

The big thing is using stringers, not a big heavy weave. Under a half-inch, you need little or no preheat, and how much weld can you put on anyway?? You just have to use a little restraint, exercise a little judgement.

Last T-1 I was involved with were 8' tall ripper shanks (6' working depth), go behind the D-10/D-11 Cat, came into a shop I work with alot. They called me, I was too busy to do them, but I came in as a "consultant", and they did exactly as I told them. These shanks were something on the order of 4" thick and about 18" deep, broke right in the middle. Ordered a couple hundred pounds of wire, went ahead and beveled them, preheat to 300 - 400 degrees, commenced welding. Now, this was the middle of summer, they told me afterwards it was all they could do to keep the interpass temp up! Stringer beads, constantly flipping from side-to-side, peening, and then wrapping in a blanket/insulation for slow cool overnight.

Customer must have liked the job, two months later he brought 4 more shanks in, needed new point adapters welded on the bottoms.

[calweld]

can't make it too hard on you old timers:D

For you boys who keep talking about welding T-1 with a wire feed,


I'm having an identity crisis here, which am I???:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[precisionworks]

...welding T-1 with a wire feed, it just didn’t give me a warm and fuzzy...

http://www.autoleadpool.com/warmfuzzy.gif

Carl,

If that doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling, nothing will:D :D :D

At work, we run maybe 5% stick, 95% wire, on everything - A36, A540, T1, AR400, etc. Mostly 2" to 6" thick, hardly anything thinner. The welding rep loves us, 6000# a week of Dual Shield 7100 Ultra must generate a nice commission. Not to mention a truckload of CO2 bottles.

The only drawback to stick, IMO, is the very low deposition rate. Other than that, either stick or gas shielded flux core should produce welds of equal quality.

[Pile Buck]

Oh trust me I’m a big believer in wire feeds! Time is money!;)


The point I was trying to make, and evidently failed miserably at it:o :o , was sometimes when people are pulling that trigger they disengage their brain. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen guys spent way to much time getting every little thing perfectly square, and to a gnat’s azz for measurement. Drop their hood and pull that trigger, then non-stop until their done. Then put a framing square or tape measure to it, and then have this look :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

If I said it once I’ve said it a million times there is more to fabricating things than just pulling a trigger! ;)

[calweld]

Oh, no, I think you made your point, it's a very valid one, you have to use a little discipline sometimes . . .

[Coalsmoke]

http://www.autoleadpool.com/warmfuzzy.gif

Carl,

If that doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling, nothing will:D :D :D

At work, we run maybe 5% stick, 95% wire, on everything - A36, A540, T1, AR400, etc. Mostly 2" to 6" thick, hardly anything thinner. The welding rep loves us, 6000# a week of Dual Shield 7100 Ultra must generate a nice commission. Not to mention a truckload of CO2 bottles.

The only drawback to stick, IMO, is the very low deposition rate. Other than that, either stick or gas shielded flux core should produce welds of equal quality.

Stick might have lower deposition rates compared to wire, but in most non-robotical applications (ie a guy in the field waving the magic wand), we're not talking huge amounts here.

[Pile Buck]

Stick might have lower deposition rates compared to wire,

Oh I don’t know, every run any NR-203MP? Years ago my company bought a couple shovels from someone there in BC. I had to go over on the Olympic Peninsula to our rock quarry and replace the cutting edges in both buckets; I think they were at least 8-feet wide. Someone somewhere got the bright idea I should run NR-203MP:rolleyes: , I swear some 1/4 or 5/16-7024 would have been much better. Only good thing is, I could walk out the back of the mechanic’s shop and watch the blasting crew make little ones out of big ones! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Coalsmoke]

Oh I don’t know, every run any NR-203MP? Years ago my company bought a couple shovels from someone there in BC. I had to go over on the Olympic Peninsula to our rock quarry and replace the cutting edges in both buckets; I think they were at least 8-feet wide. Someone somewhere got the bright idea I should run NR-203MP:rolleyes: , I swear some 1/4 or 5/16-7024 would have been much better. Only good thing is, I could walk out the back of the mechanic’s shop and watch the blasting crew make little ones out of big ones! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I agree, its amazing how much metal you can lay with a 3/16 or 1/4" stick electrode. I've never run 5/16", probably don't have enough electrons in my back pocket to try it if I wanted to;)

[BBchevy396]

Depends on application........ Sometimes undermatching filler metal is better, and can even cure some cracking problems. It always "depends".

Depends are like alot of people I know on the forums.,......Full of crap,and, a bit of useful knowledge. The hard part is discerning between the two!:D

[calweld]

I agree, its amazing how much metal you can lay with a 3/16 or 1/4" stick electrode. I've never run 5/16", probably don't have enough electrons in my back pocket to try it if I wanted to;)

Flat, 1/4" 7024 can put more pounds/hr., and takes more heat, than 1/4" 7018. I can outproduce both with the right wire. In many cases, it's possible to put more pounds/hr. down with wire out of position than you can with 7024 flat.

[bjfab]

I also worked at apen trailer in about 2001. We used fluxcore for any of the frame work for the trailer. All the fluxcore that we used was in the 70,000 lb. catergory. I did not work in the frame rail assembly area so there may have been 110,000 lb fluxcore there.


Byron

[calweld]

Oh I don’t know, every run any NR-203MP?

You know as well as I do there's a wide variation in the appropriateness of the wire selection and deposition rate between the innershields. I've never used 203, looking it up I probably never will, in your instance somebody obviously made a bone-headed decision.

[Coalsmoke]

boneheads, fruitcups, youngbucks, sounds like one big happy family:rolleyes: ;)

[Pile Buck]

it's possible to put more pounds/hr. down with wire out of position than you can with 7024 flat.
WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!! Bold statement there cowboy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek:




What was that line the bad guy said to John Wayne in that movie?


“That’s a bold statement for a 1-eyed fat man”:D :D :D :D

[Coalsmoke]

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!! Bold statement there cowboy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek:




What was that line the bad guy said to John Wayne in that movie?


“That’s a bold statement for a 1-eyed fat man”:D :D :D :D

I concur on the bold statement.:D Just I wasn't going to open another full can of worms;)

[calweld]

I said, "In many cases". Heavy gauge, with a nice "V" or corner to put it in, no worries about a big weave, it's not even close with a dualshield wire. Get a good shelf started, run 400 amps plus uphill no problem.

[Pile Buck]

Just I wasn't going to open another full can of worms;)
Naaaaaaaaaaa, Joe is just like you, very thick skin, he knows we're just jerking his chain! ;) ;) ;) :)

[Pile Buck]

Get a good shelf started, run 400 amps plus uphill no problem.
:eek: :eek: :eek: Man o man, are we into bold statements today or what? ;) :D :D :D

[calweld]

Gotta have a shootout at the "OK Corral" :D :D :D

[Pile Buck]

All fun aside:D ! I’ve worked with some boiler makers at the Chevron refinery in Richmond who were using 7024 in some tanks, now those boys would get your attention with how much metal they could put down in a day! ;)

[Coalsmoke]

Gotta have a shootout at the "OK Corral" :D :D :D

Count me in! Hey, can someone spot me some directions on how to get there:confused: :D

[calweld]

All fun aside:D ! I’ve worked with some boiler makers at the Chevron refinery in Richmond who were using 7024 in some tanks, now those boys would get your attention with how much metal they could put down in a day! ;)

I will admit I've never used anything bigger than 1/4" 7024, but I did use plenty of it up til about 3 years ago, the LWS used to keep it and 1/4" 7018 in stock for me only, kept b!tching about it, "everybody else is using wire, why don't you", finally took the plunge, haven't looked back since.

I'll also admit the manufacturer's specs don't go as high as I run (on the wire), but I stopped looking at the book a long time ago :p One other thing, and I'm sure Barry will confirm this, the Dualshield wires have been advancing considerably in technology the last few years, Lincoln has been coming out with a new one every couple years or so. What somebody used ten years ago isn't even close to what they're putting out today.

[calweld]

Count me in! Hey, can someone spot me some directions on how to get there:confused: :D

I'm only a couple miles off 99, about 10 miles from I-5 (straight shot), you couldn't miss me if you tried; I've got a map ready to fax for my vendors (deliveries), get me a fax number!!!

[Coalsmoke]

I'm only a couple miles off 99, about 10 miles from I-5 (straight shot), you couldn't miss me if you tried; I've got a map ready to fax for my vendors (deliveries), get me a fax number!!!

Oh sure, be a nice guy and call my bluff:rolleyes: I might make it down that way through the oregon coast some time, but for now there's no chance of me trying to take my rig through customs. They might not even let me through, might think I'm trying to work illegally.

About the wire, I have noticed some decent improvements too. ESAB makes a very nice wire that runs very well out of position, was using it in .045, don't remember the exact name of it though. I've never tried any serious big wire out of position, not sure I would want to either.

[calweld]

Big wire????

I figure I'm not using it to it's full potential until I have to go to my "water-cooled" mig gun :cool: This is how you keep them cool at 500 amps :p

[calweld]

Oh sure, be a nice guy and call my bluff:rolleyes: I might make it down that way through the oregon coast some time,

And I'm real easy to find!!! Beautiful house, stucco w/tile roof, brick posts, wrought-iron fence, beautiful yard and grounds.

We're the white trash just south of them :D :D :p :p

[lars66]

:eek: :eek: :eek: Man o man, are we into bold statements today or what? ;) :D :D :D

Well, i dont want to pick sides but .072 71m dual shield will lay down a lot of filler in a short time.

[Pile Buck]

Well, i dont want to pick sides

If you decide to pick, pick Coal’s he needs all the help he can get, because he’s definitely out gunned with Calweld and my self! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[precisionworks]

Esab Coreshield 11, .062, runs nicely out of position. About 5.2 #/hour flat position.

Dual Shield 7100 Ultra, .062 with CO2, is harder to run upside down, just takes practice. 18.3 #/hour in the flat. Hard to imagine running 41' of wire per minute. Also hard to appreciate the reflected heat:eek:

[Coalsmoke]

And I'm real easy to find!!! Beautiful house, stucco w/tile roof, brick posts, wrought-iron fence, beautiful yard and grounds.

We're the white trash just south of them :D :p
hahaha, :D :D :D

If you decide to pick, pick Coal’s he needs all the help he can get, because he’s definitely out gunned with Calweld and my self! :D :D

Yeah, what he said:rolleyes: ;) I need new friends. My old ones are all wore out:D

[Pile Buck]

I need new friends. My old ones are all wore out

That might be a good idea! Calweld was telling me, your mom use to call you “Pork Chop”!:D :D :D :D







You aren’t to young to know that story are you?
:rolleyes: :D :D :D

[Coalsmoke]

That might be a good idea! Calweld was telling me, your mom use to call you “Pork Chop”!:D :D :D :D







You aren’t to young to know that story are you?
:rolleyes: :D :D :D

Sorry bud, but if you're gonna try jokes like that, better stick to the last 30 years so at least I have some idea what you're talking about. :rolleyes:

Still chasing those Buicks?.......:D