DOT Welder Certification

[Woodman]

I recently came across a Welder Certification "D.O.T. 814.884" while reading a welding training course description. I was unable to find a description of the reg via Google, Yahoo, or AWS. Can any one enlighten me.

Thanks,
Woodman

[hankj]

The "D.O.T." would lead me to believe that it's a federal document. What the Department of Transportation would be testing weldors for, I can't imagine. I'd think it would be more of a regulatory type thing.

The DOT has a website....

Hank

[Engloid]

I used to do consulting work for Heil Trailers. They told me (and their customers) that all welding was in accordance to DOT specs... yet I was unable to find anything about DOT welding specs. ...nobody in the building knew anything about it either. But, they didn't have a single guy in the shop that was properly certified when I started there. All they did was a face bend test, no root bend at all. :rolleyes:

[calweld]

I don't know anything about any DOT qualifications or certifications or specs, but if you've seen some of the welds I have on some trailers (semi's) built by well-known and reputable manufacturers, you'd think twice about venturing out on the highways . . . :eek:

[Pile Buck]

but if you've seen some of the welds I have on some trailers (semi's) built by well-known and reputable manufacturers, you'd think twice about venturing out on the highways . . . :eek:

Here is a picture of my 3-horse slant “Logan” trailer.
You can’t really see it in this picture, but you should see how this 2 5/16-inch hinged ball socket head, and A-frame is welded on:eek: :eek: . Only words to describe the mig welding is bubble gum, (is that one word or two?) :confused:

You’ll never convince me Ray Charles didn’t weld it himself.:D :D

[Engloid]

Here is a picture of my 3-horse slant “Logan” trailer.
You can’t really see it in this picture, but you should see how this 2 5/16-inch hinged ball socket head, and A-frame is welded on:eek: :eek: . Only words to describe the mig welding is bubble gum, (is that one word or two?) :confused:

You’ll never convince me Ray Charles didn’t weld it himself.:D :D


That's what you get when you hire welders for $10/hr. Sadly, there's an abundance of people that will weld for that much.

[Pile Buck]

That's what you get when you hire welders for $10/hr. Sadly, there's an abundance of people that will weld for that much.
Almost makes you want to fly to Logan Utah, look up the QC guy for Logan trailers and slap him upside the head, for every letting that leave the factory!:mad: :mad:

[KB Fabrications]

That's what you get when you hire welders for $10/hr. Sadly, there's an abundance of people that will weld for that much.
Ahhhh true. Not this ole' boy.:eek: :D :cool:

[Engloid]

Ahhhh true. Not this ole' boy.:eek: :D :cool:

Me neither... If $10 was enough for my needs, I'd deliver pizza, make about $15-25/hr, and be happy with it. It's rare for a pizza delivery person to average under $10/hr.

[Darmik]

I don't know anything about any DOT qualifications or certifications or specs, but if you've seen some of the welds I have on some trailers (semi's) built by well-known and reputable manufacturers, you'd think twice about venturing out on the highways . . . :eek:



Hey Calweld up here we have the same problem
:cool:

[Darmik]

Here is a picture of my 3-horse slant “Logan” trailer.
You can’t really see it in this picture, but you should see how this 2 5/16-inch hinged ball socket head, and A-frame is welded on:eek: :eek: . Only words to describe the mig welding is bubble gum, (is that one word or two?) :confused:

You’ll never convince me Ray Charles didn’t weld it himself.:D :D


I work in commerical truck business and sad to say this is typical sh!t that I have to fix we are a DOT shop and nobody say's nothing but my manager Hey Darmik fix this crap



:cool:

[Darmik]

That's what you get when you hire welders for $10/hr. Sadly, there's an abundance of people that will weld for that much.


Not all $10. hr welders are the SH!TS But they are guilty of Association to the bad one's



:cool:

[KB Fabrications]

Not all $10. hr welders are the SH!TS But they are guilty of Association to the bad one's



:cool:
If a $10/hr welder stays a $10/hr welder for very long, then they get what they deserve.

[Darmik]

If a $10/hr welder stays a $10/hr welder for very long, then they get what they deserve.

I disagree there are some pretty good kids out there KB you must agree your self that they are just working at the wrong place but they dont have the ***** to know when to leave for greener grass and get better

:cool:

[Engloid]

I disagree there are some pretty good kids out there KB you must agree your self that they are just working at the wrong place but they dont have the ***** to know when to leave for greener grass and get better

If you don't go out and get the things you want in life, yes...you will be getting what you deserve. If you're too scared to go get a better job, then $10/hr is what you deserve.

You can't spend your life waiting on somebody to hand you opportunities.

[KB Fabrications]

I disagree there are some pretty good kids out there KB you must agree your self that they are just working at the wrong place but they dont have the ***** to know when to leave for greener grass and get better

:cool:
That's why I said they get what they deserve. If you are good and can't stand up and take care of yourself, do you expect someone to do it for you? I wouldn't want someone like that working for me. It may be harsh but that's the world I work in.

[Darmik]

well KB you are one of a kind employer you send your people to school every year for whatever lenght and when he or she gets back they get an automatic rase in pay I'm not an employer but I do have a say in what goes on in my world so I guess I would like to think that I have a hand in changing my little world and you in your's ( I'm not tring to be sarcastic I'm tring to under stand your point of view)I think you and I are talking about the same thing almost maybe it's my comperhension of what your saying.I still think people need a little push to get them going as long as they know your beside them when they finished school and not lay them off after they are finished
school because now you have to pay them more I know this one all to well.

:cool:

[KB Fabrications]

If you don't go out and get the things you want in life, yes...you will be getting what you deserve. If you're too scared to go get a better job, then $10/hr is what you deserve.

You can't spend your life waiting on somebody to hand you opportunities.

Well said.

well KB you are one of a kind employer you send your people to school every year for whatever lenght and when he or she gets back they get an automatic rase in pay I'm not an employer but I do have a say in what goes on in my world so I guess I would like to think that I have a hand in changing my little world and you in your's ( I'm not tring to be sarcastic I'm tring to under stand your point of view)I think you and I are talking about the same thing almost maybe it's my comperhension of what your saying.I still think people need a little push to get them going as long as they know your beside them when they finished school and not lay them off after they are finished
school because now you have to pay them more I know this one all to well.
I think you missed my point. Giving someone a little encouragement now and then is vastly different from an individual who chooses to live in mediocrity. I don't mind giving praise for good work but I don't want to have to hold anyones hand to get them to do what they need to do. I have one employee and I would bend over backwards to help him but not because he needs it. I would do it because he shows up when he is supposed to, does his job better than I have asked him to, and leaves the shop they way he found it, or better.

As far as compensation goes, I will pay you what you are worth. That means the quicker you get up to speed , and the less I have to hold your hand, the better you will do. Some employers miss the boat when determining the value of employees. By that I mean they value having a position filled over having that same position occupied with someone who is skilled. Most of the time you have to pay for that and I would rather have a skilled employee, and pay for it, than to just have a revolving door in the shop.

[BillC]

I recently came across a Welder Certification "D.O.T. 814.884" while reading a welding training course description. I was unable to find a description of the reg via Google, Yahoo, or AWS. Can any one enlighten me.Woodman,

Were you looking at this page? http://rop.sutter.k12.ca.us/agriculture/11_wt.html

I think that DOT stands for "Dictionary of Occupational Titles." If I am correct then 814.884 is a welder who performs explosion welding of some sort... I think that 884 should be 684 and that they have other typos as well.

Here is an excerpt from the list:
WELDER, COMBINATION (welding) 819.384-010
WELDER, EXPERIMENTAL (welding) 819.281-022
WELDER, EXPLOSION (welding) 814.684-010
WELDER-FITTER (welding) 819.361-010
WELDER-FITTER APPRENTICE (welding) 819.361-014
Welder-Fitter, Arc (welding) 819.361-010
Welder-Fitter, Gas (welding) 819.361-010
welder-fitter helper (any industry) 801.687-014
Welder, Flux-Cored Arc (welding) 810.384-014
WELDER, GAS (welding) 811.684-014
welder, gas, automatic (welding) 811.482-010
Welder, Gas-Metal Arc (welding) 810.384-014
Welder, Gas-Tungsten Arc (welding) 810.384-014
WELDER, GUN (welding) 810.664-010
Welder, Hand, Submerged Arc (welding) 810.384-014

Here is a link:
http://www.occupationalinfo.org/

Regards,

[FusionKing]

:D :eek: :D

[Pile Buck]

Yeah leave it to good ol BillC to think out of the box! Here we’re all thinking DOT

D= Department

O= of

T= Transportation
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Darmik]

Well said.


I think you missed my point. Giving someone a little encouragement now and then is vastly different from an individual who chooses to live in mediocrity. I don't mind giving praise for good work but I don't want to have to hold anyones hand to get them to do what they need to do. I have one employee and I would bend over backwards to help him but not because he needs it. I would do it because he shows up when he is supposed to, does his job better than I have asked him to, and leaves the shop they way he found it, or better.

As far as compensation goes, I will pay you what you are worth. That means the quicker you get up to speed , and the less I have to hold your hand, the better you will do. Some employers miss the boat when determining the value of employees. By that I mean they value having a position filled over having that same position occupied with someone who is skilled. Most of the time you have to pay for that and I would rather have a skilled employee, and pay for it, than to just have a revolving door in the shop.


I would rather have a skilled employee, and pay for it, than to just have a revolving door in the shop.[/

yes you and I do agree

:cool:

[weld-tek]

hire for attitude-train for skill=success

[Sberry]

It takes some people a long time to learn that the world is a competitive place and even being good or great doesn't have anyone beating a path to the door. I know some B grade welders made a lot of money in the business, doesn't do much good to be tallented if you are not going to exploit it. Lots of dead artists were starving in their own time, Picasso and Warhol and others made it pay.

[Sberry]

I see a couple guys on the forums that are great, got the talent, the skill, knowledge but their business sense is for squat, figuring that someone owes you more than you are getting isnt much of a plan, wastes a lot of energy in the wrong direction.

[Sberry]

I know this is a welding forum but I watch this aspect as much or more than the welding. Kevin Bentz is a good example of biz done right. There are a half a dozen others I can see that found their spot and make it work for them. Andy the forum guy is a great example of driving a welding career to an art. The man has direction, its something he has settled on, a deliberate focus toward a goal, unless he turns crackhead tomorrow he will never have to look far for a good paying job. Lots of older guys here and can tell your story but I like to point out some the younger ones as examples. Shadey Ron from SFT is another good example of a guy taking the effort to position himself. If I had any real qualifications, like I was inspector or instructor, spe******t of some kind like Engloid, been to the school, read the books I might be thinking of positioning myself as an extreme spe******t, demo, instruction or custom tig work, forget the stick crap and common piping, sell himself as when absolutely only the best will do at 125$ an hour incl travel, have his van packed up with some tools, target customers that occasionally need spe******t but dont want to staff, etc or simply dont have the skill. I wouldnt waste my time with mundane work. I would be a salesman and spend 35 hrs a week to start with selling 5 hrs worth of billable time and work my way up from there. I would have to agree with Engloids assesment of his own ability, as a technition he is in the top. My neighbor is a specialty millwright, gets a thousand dollars a day, if he is chasing work for nothing he can stay home and he work a month and a half last year make out about the same as a guy punching a clock 50 weeks a year as common factory work.

[Sberry]

Where my neighbor loses it is focus. If he wold drive that he would have half a million a yr career with a few simple hand tools but he stays home and backslides with his sawmill, general contracting, machine shop crap that eats his lunch. I have another builder bud that has it down to a science, works regular business week hrs and bills like a lawyer, makes out invoices for 45 billable hrs like clockwork every week 50 wks a yr.

[Sberry]

Me, this week I do a clutch job that just come back to haunt me. ha

[Fat-Fab.com]

It takes some people a long time to learn that the world is a competitive place and even being good or great doesn't have anyone beating a path to the door. .

Blame the schools and the liberal teaching. Teaching that all thing should be FAIR. and when it is not sue.

TJ

[Stillwelding]

What does "When it not sue" mean. Is that some regional lingo? Or am I just out of the loop?

[Woodman]

BillC,

Yes, I was viewing the ROP Catalog page when I ran across the reference to Welder & DOT 814.884.
I think you nailed it, I had "assumed" (I know, I know!!!!) that DOT was referencing Dept. of Transportation, and not the Dictionary whose web site you provided.

Thanks for taking the time to help fellow welder.
Woodman

[weldone]

Okay in a nutshell...What do you guys feel a welder lets say comming out of school who's knows the BASICS of g.m.a.w, s.m.a.w, g.t.a.w, oxy, print reading(WELD-SYMBOLS) P.a.c Hourly Rate of pay be to start?:cool:

[Engloid]

Okay in a nutshell...What do you guys feel a welder lets say comming out of school who's knows the BASICS of g.m.a.w, s.m.a.w, g.t.a.w, oxy, print reading(WELD-SYMBOLS) P.a.c Hourly Rate of pay be to start?:cool:

It really depends more on the location than anything. Second thing is if you can weld pipe, and good enough to pass certification tests. If you can pass pipe tests, it's usually an easy ticket straight to the journeyman pay rates.

[Pile Buck]

Okay in a nutshell...What do you guys feel a welder lets say comming out of school who's knows the BASICS of g.m.a.w, s.m.a.w, g.t.a.w, oxy, print reading(WELD-SYMBOLS) P.a.c Hourly Rate of pay be to start?:cool:

Well lets see, I fired over a dozen weldors on this job that were making 30.00$’s an hour, even tho they were journeymen, in actuality they didn’t know half of what you listed. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Darmik]

It really depends more on the location than anything. Second thing is if you can weld pipe, and good enough to pass certification tests. If you can pass pipe tests, it's usually an easy ticket straight to the journeyman pay rates.


weldone is just starting out I dont think he will be welding any pipe in school or in the feild or in the shop
hey pilebuck I agree I have meet A level welders at I wouldn't let them near my bike and I know C level welders that I would

Weldone: I dont know where you are located but in BC lower mainland where I am C level will get between 12 - 18 hr depends on who you work for and what kind of work they do. You might want to talk to Coalsmoke he also has his own truck in BC and in alberta talk to dan or frostbit these are the the people that I see alot on here that's why I mentioned there names.If you are in USA talk to Fusion or weldingrod,skidsteer I know there is others just cant think of theme right now

:cool:

[Pile Buck]

hey pilebuck I agree I have meet A level welders at I wouldn't let them near my bike and I know C level welders that I would

Yup, fired one guy on that project for telling me polarity was a wife’s tale:eek: , didn’t mean nuff-thing:rolleyes: ! Now remember this is a AWS D1.1 certified weldor let alone a journeyman! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Engloid]

weldone is just starting out I dont think he will be welding any pipe in school or in the feild or in the shop
hey pilebuck I agree I have meet A level welders at I wouldn't let them near my bike and I know C level welders that I would

It depends on what you mean by "just starting out." He asked about what certs from school were worth, which makes me think he's in school now and thinking about his first job(s) when he gets out.

My first welding job was as a journeyman pipe welder. My very second piece of stainless pipe was for a test to get that first job. About 90% of the people that I went to school with started out as journeyman pipe welders. It was a 6 month program too.

[Sberry]

I was on a nuke and there were a bunch of 19 yr old "journeyman" pipe welders. They knew how to do one thing and a lot of them did it really well. A bunch of French Canadians, Bechtel had a deal hooked up to let a bunch of them down here to practice on our job. My first welding job I was paid journeyman because of passing a test. I got caught one short time I had to do the apprentice thing which I spun my way out of, it was a good experience in the long run but I worked as a journeyman thru my apprenticeship. Work was terrible here about a year in and I get in my car a couple times when I had to. There is always a job somewhere.

[Sberry]

The study of the world of work interests me more than welding itself. I remember starting out, even working for different companies it kind of seemed the same people were in charge. My view at 45+ years old is certainly different than it was at 20 and it will probably be different in another 15 yrs. The things I would be willing to do are different, the position I am in is different. It isn't that I couldn't do a pile buck job but a week of that would get old, working on a drilling rig would be another dandy. I always targeted big out of town contractors when I travel, none of the locals in Miami really want to work for American Bridge and they liked the guys from the north better anyway so a hire on was easier than the work, ha.

[Sberry]

I actually liked working for those guys better than my local type contractors. They had aholes too but at that time early in my career it was all about the job with those guys, my age or past didn't matter, I found a couple things I was really good at and despite my physical stature compared to some real gorillas I work with I was passable getting around on the iron, all my welding well pass any inspection, willing to do a lot of stuff other guys wouldn't. I got it done and they respect me for it.
The question becomes are you willing to go to work every day on some frozen beam over the city, maybe a bridge, who knows what or where dragging some monster cum along or a roll of 4/0 lead or heavy plank, ropes, cables, look at the pics Carl shows. A guy can make as much money standing around twirling a tig too. All that is great experience for a guy starting out, can learn how to put a few bucks in his pocket if he needs to but it ain't for everyone.

[weldone]

No gentlemen I've been done with school:D
I wanted some input to what a welder coming out of school with basic skill level in those processess should be earning at any said job reguardless to
a cert before hand.
And yes I'm N.Y.C-(covers) buildings and structures AND N.Y.S CERTIFIED (D.O.T) (covers) bridges and tunnels.Two different test two different municipilaties:D :D :cool: both in 3-g with 5/32 7018.

[farmboy weldor]

I'm not sure which test woodman was looking for a description for but I am practicing at the moment for the DOT "bridge and tunnel" test if you will, which certifies me on 1" thick Mild steel single V groove all 5/32" 7018.

I hope to take the actual test sometime in March.
To me though the guidelines for the test seem fairly laid back, the plate itself is 5" long they only look for 3 good inches of weld, the face can be as wide as you like as long as you don't weave the entire face and you can grind it flush when finished.

just thought id add my 2 cents

[Engloid]

Why is there nothing on the net about DOT specs?

From all I could find, they make only vague references to other codes.

THerefore, I have to wonder if these "DOT tests" people are taking are primarily employer requirements, and not so much a code requirement. Any comments?

[Darmik]

Why is there nothing on the net about DOT specs?

From all I could find, they make only vague references to other codes.

THerefore, I have to wonder if these "DOT tests" people are taking are primarily employer requirements, and not so much a code requirement. Any comments?

I finished an interview with waste managment and they need a cirtified welder to weld on there trucks DOT does not have a welder certification of qualifications if it doesn't look good they write it up to get it fixed this is an in house thing.
:cool:

[Pile Buck]

A huge part of my career has been working on either WASHDOT, or CALTRANS projects.

WASHDOT = Washington department of transportation

CALTRANS = California department of transportation.

Far as I can remember reading in any spec book of either one of these agencies about welding, they always referred back to an AWS code, never once seen where they had their own welding code. But one just never knows!

[weldone]

C'omon guys... What no feedback on the rate of pay
for the up and coming welders out of school with the basics
in prints, smaw, gtaw, gmaw, pac and oxy:D

Okay then lets here it from you bussiness owners
what would yall suggest that they start with?:rolleyes: :cool:

[Darmik]

Read post 6 , 34 , 35.

:cool:

[BillC]

try hotjobs.com...

[hankj]

C'omon guys... What no feedback on the rate of pay
for the up and coming welders out of school with the basics
in prints, smaw, gtaw, gmaw, pac and oxy:D

Okay then lets here it from you bussiness owners
what would yall suggest that they start with?:rolleyes: :cool:

There's no way to answer your question. Wages vary greatly by location. Even within the five county area where I live, there's a big difference. You need to get specific as to area, union shop or not, etc.

Hank

[weldone]

Well from what i was reading 10 an hour is crazy.
Wich I agree.So I just wanted to see if any Especially those that run a bussiness felt like manning up to what it is that they are in disagreement to.
Personally reguardless to what state,city union or non-union small shop or large or extra large shop.It should be a minium a entry level welder ought to be making period.Can I geta Amen somebody.

The way I see it theres a real mis-representation of what welding is and what welding is sussposed to be. A mis-understanding that welding is a craft like or better yet un-like any other.Plumbers,brick masons,electrictions etc even when entry level they come in at a legit pay scale.:cool:union or not

Just checking the pulse of the forum on the issue and it seems to be weak.
And I'm sure that the up and coming welders that frequent this site find that very unfortunate. I mean they are the ones soon to take over Don't we want them to have something to look foward to?
Well I feel entry with schooling should be at least 15 hourly.

Strike a arc and be happy.:D :cool:
Dave.

[BillC]

Dave,

Just curious, but what salary range did you expect before you went to welding school?

It sounds like salary ranges are diluted by the presence of semi-skilled operators. If you give a guy a MIG gun and an hour of training is he a welder?

Good luck,

[Pile Buck]

Well from what i was reading 10 an hour is crazy.
Wich I agree.So I just wanted to see if any Especially those that run a bussiness felt like manning up to what it is that they are in disagreement to.
Personally reguardless to what state,city union or non-union small shop or large or extra large shop.It should be a minium a entry level welder ought to be making period.Can I geta Amen somebody.

The way I see it theres a real mis-representation of what welding is and what welding is sussposed to be. A mis-understanding that welding is a craft like or better yet un-like any other.Plumbers,brick masons,electrictions etc even when entry level they come in at a legit pay scale.:cool:union or not

Just checking the pulse of the forum on the issue and it seems to be weak.
And I'm sure that the up and coming welders that frequent this site find that very unfortunate. I mean they are the ones soon to take over Don't we want them to have something to look foward to?
Well I feel entry with schooling should be at least 15 hourly.

Strike a arc and be happy.:D :cool:
Dave.

Only time I was ever around any 798 union hands I was to small to know anything, but other then them, in my experience a weldor, is just another tool of the trade! Sure in many places it is a separate classification but still falls under a trade name. Like rigger, sawyer, dozer hand, crane operator, each one is just a classification in the respective trade. I’m sure there is a union just for weldors, but I haven’t seen or heard of any such animal!

It might be called “United Brotherhood of Weldors & Wanna Bees”! :)

[weldone]

Dave,

Just curious, but what salary range did you expect before you went to welding school?

It sounds like salary ranges are diluted by the presence of semi-skilled operators. If you give a guy a MIG gun and an hour of training is he a welder?

Good luck,

Exactly! My point.No a guy with a mig gun for a hour is not a welder.
But Bill how many REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT REALIZATION?:D
The other trades do.And up-hold that type of thinking.This is why they are more respected and better paid.Oh-and the ones that have that paper that states they've been trainned in the profession that they're claiming get the real money.

As for me.I wasnt curious. actually no interest in welding untill I understood the money that could be made from it.:D :cool: And I knew schooling and certs were very critical for the field I'm in:D