snoohoogoo- outahere

[ASKANDY]

snoohoogoo is out a here.

No room for stupidity that could hurt someone that doesn't know any better.

Waste of forum space.

Andy

[imported_frank865]

Thank You!!

[burninbriar]

DITTO !!!
Thanks Andy.:)

[fun4now]

cool.

in future can we just use the repot post to bring them to your atention???

[pgk]

Andy

Thank you.

Pete

[MAC702]

cool.

in future can we just use the repot post to bring them to your atention???
I didn't find one. I used the feedback button before I even responded to the post. Either our recent attacks are coordinated, or maybe the same guy...

[Laiky]

and there was much rejoicing, Yaaaayyy

[fun4now]

in future can we just use the repot post to bring them to your atention???


the lil red triangel with the ! in it next to the post # is the one. up here .................................................. .................................................. ..........^

[ASKANDY]

Yup!
If you hit report post, it will come to me.

Thanks for the notice!

Andy

[tigman250]

ANDY thank you very much! couldn't agree more with what you said!

thanks again!
Craig

[Paul Seaman]

I've been gone too long, I guess!

[fun4now]

with all the new miller sites popping up at the miller home page are we going to lose this one????????
you in contract negoseations????:p

just wondering as i didnt see a referance to you in the power click isue, are we at risk of loseing this site or you?????:confused:

[Wheels]

A moment of silence guys, we have lost a great one here:eek:

Mike

[precisionworks]

Another way to do this is to make sure the tank is TOTALLY full of gasoline, so there is no room for explosive vapors to accumulate.


And you wonder why Third World Countries are catching up with us:rolleyes:

[jolane]

I am trying to fuel a fire, as I think the original post that everyone is referring to was dumb at best. With that said, I was told years ago that when welding around a gas tank on a vehicle, to make sure that the tank is full, to minimize air space. This was by a professional welder who ran a very large shop. I am not saying it is right, but is this completely bad information. Maybe the context was meant to be something like "if you HAVE to weld on a vehicle...", I don't know now.

Anyone else have a take on this? BTW, I do know that welding by a battery is a BAD idea, unless the goal is to make the battery explode and send battery acid everywhere. I have seen this happen first hand (not me thankfully)...

Joshua

[burninbriar]

You may have missed the guys other post about cutting holes in oxygen and acetiline tanks to increase the flow.

[fun4now]

i thought we just got rid of this post.:eek: i gess its like calling a dog with no leggs, just pointless to try.:confused:

[jolane]

Sorry guys. I did NOT miss the other post about cutting holes in gas bottles. Yes, I also know that he posted about filling the gas tank completely. All I was saying is that I was specifically told to fill the gas tank also. I was not talking about welding ON a gas tank (yes, I saw that thread also). I work on cars as a hobby, and expect to be welding on my Suburban this summer (bumpers, side plates, frame brackets for skid plates, etc) and was curious. If dropping the tank is the only safe way, I would like to know. Can I just cover the area with a welding blanket?

If the answers are no, a simple "no, it is not safer" would suffice.

I didn't mean to ruffle feathers...I was actually serious...unlike the other poster troll...

Thanks,
Joshua

[Rocky D]

Actually, a wet towel or rags soaked in water are better than just a welding blanket...the water in the cloth puts out the little orange B-B's....;)

[ASKANDY]

Joshua,

You are correct but it's still dangerous. I've done it that way with success most of the time except once.

The deal is, gas burns but fumes explode!! I was welding on a trailer hitch on my brother's friend's car which ran right up between the frame and the tank and while the tank was full, we ended up puncturing the tank and as it burned, my brother and his friend, who were manning the fire extinguishers, decided to run for the hills. It took 4 extinguishers from the shop to get it out just before the fuel level reached critical. The car was toast and if the blow through area was just 1 1/2 inches higher, it would have blew.
That was my lesson learned and expended one of my nine lives!

A

[ASKANDY]

Fun,

The site isn't in going anywhere. It's still a valuable tool and our members have grown quite a bit this last year.

Keep on postin'

A

[fun4now]

thanks i thought i was about to have no life at all.:eek:

[jolane]

Thank you Andy! Obviously, welding around fuel tanks is dangerous, and definitely not ideal! Sometimes though, it may be necessary. I realize that the fumes are very dangerous, and maintaining a vapor limit outside of the region between the LEL and HEL is VERY important.

If you had to do the same welding again, would you choose a different process? For instance, I assume the TIG would be safer than MIG, which would be safer than STICK due to sparks flying around. It may not be possible to get a quality weld with one process over another, but given the choice, in general is one safer?

All of this information is important for guys working around fuel tanks and storage containers as well, including working in a garage around vehicles, lawn mowers, fuel cans, motorcycles, etc! There are a lot of flammable hazards in a typical workplace, including the acetone sitting on the bench used to clean metal before welding! It does not only apply to welding on vehicles. Anybody could have a problem with fuel, especially when working at home!

Joshua

[burninbriar]

Thank you Andy!

All of this information is important for guys working around fuel tanks and storage containers as well, including working in a garage around vehicles, lawn mowers, fuel cans, motorcycles, etc! There are a lot of flammable hazards in a typical workplace, including the acetone sitting on the bench used to clean metal before welding! It does not only apply to welding on vehicles. Anybody could have a problem with fuel, especially when working at home!

Joshua
I couldnt agree more. I was grinding a weld at the sign shop once and I thought every thing was cool, a spark flew into an open can of pain that was not even that close to me and lit it on fire, no one got hurt , we just put the fire out but it just goes to show how easy accidents can happen. Best bet is to be as safe as you can and dont take any thing for granted.

[fun4now]

not to take anything away from the post, but a gass tank is not that hard to remove. even in my linited shop witch has no lift just a few jacks and some wheel stop blocks it only took me about 40 minuits to take the tank out of my 1988 chev. and from the looks of it i would say it was the first time it had been removed scence it was put in at the factory. 10 of that was just getting the gass pumped out so i would be able to lift the tank when it came off. besides my own life being werth the time spent to take it out, ther is no way i could have replaced the truck if andys misshap would have happend.
for thouse considering removeing a gass tank i give this suggestion, go to the auto parts store and pick up an inline electrice fule pump, its about $50-60 and you can use it later for fule transfers in many other situations.i use mine all the time to pump fule to and from my quad tanks and acationaly to get gass out of 1 car to put it into anothe when $$$ is low. all in all it has been a great investment.;)
i just cant see myself in any situation where i would be willing to weld near a gass tank, just not werth the risk.i'll find the time to take the tank out or find another way of doing it.:rolleyes: some time ya just gota say NOPE it aint happining, lets look for other options.:)

befor i get atacked, i know some of you will say you have to for this or that reason for your job and thats fine for you, but I ( note I said I)would find another job first.;)

[jolane]

Fun,
While I do not disagree that removing the gas tank is the best solution, it is by no means fool proof, nor easy. I removed my gas tank from my Subruban to install shackle flip brackets, and it was a two person job that took quite a while. Actaully, I did not even remove it, rather I just hung it down until I could to the back side of the frame rails. A lot hard to remove all the tubes, filler neck, etc...

Removing the tank is not fool proof either (try storing 35-40 gallons of gas after emptying it). Also not trivial. Static electricity is a big deal now as well. Once the tank is removed, you still have fuel lines with fuel vapors in them installed on the vehicle. Good luck removing those. Yes, you could cap those.

I am not trying to disagree for disagreement sake...I just am thinking about how I will be working on my vehicle this summer when welding DOES have to be done. The welding could be as simbple as some tacks to hold the bumper to the brackets (bolted to the frame). I would remove something for final welding if at all possible! What if the tank is needed in place (welding at someone elses house and have to drive it somewhere to get home). What is a skid plate is being built to cover it, and you need the layout and to tack the plates in place. What if you are welding on axle perches to the rear axle, which is back by the gas tank? To what extent is removing the gas tank the safest.

I am just thinking out loud here about very realistic situations I could be facing. Nothing is a given (heck, the tranny fliud could ignite, or the battery, or...).

I should have just started a new thread on this I guess. These are MOTORSPORTS questions after all, and something NASCAR guys must think about also...
Joshua

[fun4now]

i took my tank out to replace it due to a leak in it. too much salt on the raods i guess. si i just cut all the rubber lines comming out of the fuel pump as i was going to replace all the lines also. i supose without cutting all the lines it would be a bit harder, still wont catch me welding near the tank though.;)
i supose nascar has there ways but i would think pulling the fuel cell would be there first recomendation, after all they got a $300,000 car to worry about not an old chevy P.U. :p

[Sberry]

[QUOTE=jolane]Fun,
While I do not disagree that removing the gas tank is the best solution, it is by no means fool proof, nor easy. I removed my gas tank from my Subruban to install shackle flip brackets, and it was a two person job that took quite a while. Actaully, I did not even remove it, rather I just hung it down until I could to the back side of the frame rails. A lot hard to remove all the tubes, filler neck, etc...

Removing the tank is not fool proof either (try storing 35-40 gallons of gas after emptying it). Also not trivial. Static electricity is a big deal now as well. Once the tank is removed, you still have fuel lines with fuel vapors in them installed on the vehicle. Good luck removing those. Yes, you could cap those.

I agree, I got in a pissing match with a mod on a truck forum over this, he got all sensitive cause I suggested that it wasnt always a good idea to take tanks out for the reasons you said and get this,,, you take it out in case you drop a tool on the floor and make a spark. There is a little sheetmetal ear on some trucjks, done the very one and the corner of it sticks out making the tank hard to remove-reinstall and I say cut it off with a snip, its outside the tank weld and you can clearly see it,, no, in his mind since he is mr saftey is to have the guy take it all out, drain and wash the tank, on and on as somehow having several buckets of gas sitting around and wrestling a tank, trying to clean it is better than taking 30 seconds the easy way and snip it off. Removing a fuel tank isnt the highlight of my day I can tell you that, its often dangerous all its own, some are easier but some are a real job, not for the timid. There is certainly a trade off here, you want to be safe but there is no point in doing more hard dangerous work either.

[fun4now]

befor i took out the tank i fabricated a "H" bracket and atached it to one of my screw jacks, atached a floor jack to the frame , jacked the truck up. put the screw jack under the tank jacked it up snug and removed the retaining straps, after that all i had to do was screw the jack down slowly untill i had acces to the hoses and poped the hole thing out. i agree trying to manhandle a 32galen tank out by had would be a pain, gota work smart not hard hence the "H" bracket and screw jack. as for storing the gas i put that in standerd DOT aproved 5 gallen cans.
like i said htis was my choice and i stand by it . it may not suit all, but it dose work for me.
as far as nascar goes, i would think they all have fuel cells, witch would probly come out even easyer. i'm just guessing on that though, andy would have to fill us in on it. though it was my understanding that all races required fuel cells for safty reasons and from what i have seen of them removal would be quick and painless.
again. i am not trying to argue with you about how to do this, just trying to explain how i did it fairly quickly and also prity easily. with the adition of an electrick fuel punp and a modified screw jack atachment. you can give it a try next time you need to remove the tank , or you can chose to leave the tank in and weld that way its up to you.
for me the tank comes out.;)
for you , only you can make that call.:)

[fun4now]

FWIW:
i wouldnt take the tank out because i was afrade of a tool being droped makeing a spark, that is just stupid. by his thinking you would need to remove the tank just to change the oil, or change a flat, heck ya couldnt even change a tail light bulbe with the tank in.:eek: i think he was just pushing at you for fun,some times ya just gota let them rant on & on & on& on, well you get the point.:p

[hankj]

I guess I better get into the habit of checking in here daily! I always miss the fun......

Hank

[mccutter]

As a Master Auto Technician (and instructor) originally from the northeast (the exhaust replacement capital of the world) I have removed and installed 1000s of exhaust systems uneventfully. As you may know, many exhaust systems run right by the gas tank. The trick (or was it luck?) is to (1) relieve any pressure in the tank by unscrewing and retightening the gas cap, (2) give a sniff test to check for fumes indicating a possible leak (it is the fumes which will explode), (3) give a visual to inspect for a "wet" tank indicating a leak and also visually check for holes in the floor (ie:the carpeting) or flammable undercoating, (4) construct a metal shield if necessary and (5) remove the tank as a last resort making sure to plug the lines. Keep a fire extinguisher or two and a water hose or spray bottle handy. When cutting the system off with the O/A torch, you can often direct the sparks away from flammables but when welding an exhaust or trailer hitch there is often no control of the weld spatter so shields or tank removal may be the only safe options. Whether or not the tank is full should not matter as the goal here is zero fires or explosions. A full tank will be more inconvenient to remove and more likely to spill its contents. An empty tank will be full of fumes. If there is no tank in place when you weld, there will be no chance of a fire as long as the tank is well away from the welding action.

While we're on the subject of fires and gas tanks, here's a true story: I'm working in a dealership with around 12 bays and mechanics, 6 on each side of the driveway. Directly across from me is a mechanic draining fuel from a van up on a lift via siphon hose into an open pan below. Hanging from the bottom of the van is a incandescent droplight. Do I need to say more?

Well, all-of-a-sudden I hear screaming coming from across the shop--you guessed it--hot bulb drops into cold pan of gasoline and poof! The screaming was the mechanic with his arm alight from the gasoline he spilled on it while siphoning. While half the cowards, I mean mechanics, ran for the door, I grabbed the closest fire extinguisher and helped put the fire out. The mechanic on fire ran for the fire blanket and was put out by some other mechanics that didn't flee. They also pulled his polyester work shirt off of him which may or may not have been a good thing. He was out of work for three months. The shop was equipped with flourescent drop lights the next day and the incans. were removed.

The moral to the story is to be very respectful and aware of flammable substances and to make sure you have a fully-charged fire extinguisher handy and hope you never need it. A welding blanket could double as a fire blanket, BTW...

Stay Safe!

[jolane]

Mccutter,
Thank you for an insightful post. I think that all too often people do not respect the fact that gasoline, whether vapors or liquid, is very flammable and dangerous. The metal shield is the best idea I have heard so far. Of course welding an exhaust system will be next to the fuel tank on most cars, and the metal shield is really easy to slip in.

Correct me if I am wrong, but most older cars have vents to the tank? I am talking 60's-70's without charcoal canisters. These vents are usually around the tank, maybe by the filler tube. This sort of thing concerns me the most, not knowing where, if any, fumes are coming from.

Finally, I was helping someone remove an engine from their truck. He was a mechanic at a local dealership at the time, and his block cracked, so we pulled the engine after hours (Saturday evening actually). Anyway, the truck had two tanks (early 80's Ford). Somehow one of us forgot to plug the fuel line that we took from the engine with something more substantial than the common screwdriver shoved in the end. Well, we came in the next morning to finish up what we hadn't Saturday evening to find the floor covered in gasoline. Both tanks drained out completely from the one line covering the floor! Whoa! Now THAT was a major mistake, luckily nobody else was around, perhaps smoking a cig or something! A mop cleaned it up quickly...yes, I think we all do stupid things. The point is, it is not always the major things that cause problems, such as removing the tank. It can be something really stupid and seemingly minor that causes the biggest problems. I will say, LESSON LEARNED!

Joshua

[mccutter]

Joshua:
Older cars often had vented gas caps. With the advent of emission controls in the late 60s and early 70s, manufacturers went to a closed system with vapors stored in a charcoal cannister, usually mounted near the engine. The stored vapors are drawn out and burned the next time you start the engine. A modern system is more complex than that but works similarly. Unburned gasoline vapors are a major source of pollution: they are HC or hydrocarbons.

Good Luck, Bob.

[fun4now]

building a quick simple metal shield is an exilent ideal.

wile it would seem that mentioning haveing a good FILLED fire extingwisher isent nessesary it dose seem to be one of theouse things so offten over looked. wile i should have had one in my shop from the first day itbecame a shop insted of a storage shed, it wasent untill i got my O/A setup that i went out and got one as it just never acured to me to get one:confused: and im shoure others dont have them in there shop.weather you are working with steel or wood i think every shop/garage should have atleast 1 well maintained extingwisher.last year i bought one for my older brother as an early birthday present when i went over to his house and saw he had none in his garage/shop. i was amazed to find that in the garoge was 2 diferent types of propain heaters, an O/A system, and he was replaceing fule lines in the puddle the car made with the leak.:eek: yet not a single fire extingwisher in site.:confused: for what its werth he still hasent needed the fire extingwisher but its nice to know its there should he ever. every one should have atleast 1 extingwisher.:)
let us hope this thread will inspire thouse without to go get one.:cool: