Help me decide on cooler parts

[goatwelder]

My friend gave me 2 laboratory style constant temperature baths (1 large and 1 small) so now its time to make a tig torch cooler. I tore them apart for parts. As you can see in the pics, there is a large stainless tank about 3 gallons and a smaller about 1.5 gallons. The heat exchangers are quite a bit different in size too. Both baths have small pumps that are probably inadequate for pumping power but I’m not totally certain. I have a HF pump that I’m sure is more than enough power to do the trick.
I have never used a water-cooled torch and I am wondering what the best combination might be with these parts. I’m using a TA 185. Is a big tank better than a smaller one? As for the heat exchanger, the large one is probably good enough for that Miller 700 amp tig. I’m wondering if that small exchanger is good enough with that wimpy little muffin fan.
Any advice on the best way to combine these parts would be appreciated.

[goatwelder]

here is a pic of the HF pump I tried out.

[Sundown]

I don't know about the stuff you have there but I can give you the specs I used for mine. The muffin fan I use is 5" X 5" and puts out 105 CFM, the exchanger is a 5" X 5" X 1-1/2" 4 pass with 3/8" tubing. The pump will need to put out 50-60 PSI (not more) on the output side and pump about 1-1/2 quarts per minute. I am using mine with a Thermal Arc 185TSW and a series 20 torch, the tank tempature bearly goes up 5º during a session using 2 gal of coolant. Pictures of what I used can be seen at this link http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=1275 , I hope this helps you.

[Laiky]

that looks like a centrifical pump, don't think it will develop enough pressure. You will probably need a positive displacement pump. Most people (including manufacturers) use a carbonator pump off a soda dispenser. It is a vane pump with a built in presure relief valve. They are available on e-bay, i got a whole pump assy with tank for about 60 bucks used. I'm sure there are plenty other ways of doing it but many here have been sucessful with the carbonator. BTW you will need about 50-60 psi for a 20 series water cooled torch, that presure should yeild the recommended 1-1.5 qt/min flow.

[goatwelder]

I don't know about the stuff you have there but I can give you the specs I used for mine. The muffin fan I use is 5" X 5" and puts out 105 CFM, the exchanger is a 5" X 5" X 1-1/2" 4 pass with 3/8" tubing. The pump will need to put out 50-60 PSI (not more) on the output side and pump about 1-1/2 quarts per minute. I am using mine with a Thermal Arc 185TSW and a series 20 torch, the tank tempature bearly goes up 5º during a session using 2 gal of coolant. Pictures of what I used can be seen at this link http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=1275 , I hope this helps you.

Wher can I get a water pressure gauge?
The small muffin fan is the same as yours and the exchanger is aboutthe same maby a little bigger only it hace 1/4". Sounds like it just might work.
Thanks for the response.

[goatwelder]

that looks like a centrifical pump, don't think it will develop enough pressure. You will probably need a positive displacement pump. Most people (including manufacturers) use a carbonator pump off a soda dispenser. It is a vane pump with a built in presure relief valve. They are available on e-bay, i got a whole pump assy with tank for about 60 bucks used. I'm sure there are plenty other ways of doing it but many here have been sucessful with the carbonator. BTW you will need about 50-60 psi for a 20 series water cooled torch, that presure should yeild the recommended 1-1.5 qt/min flow.

I am going to get a pressure gauge and see how the 2 pumps act. Now I have some info to go on. Sounds like the only thing I need to get is a pump.

[fun4now]

i think arc-zone sells reman. pumps i know they sell replacement pumps, might check there $$$ if ya dont find one on e-bay or just want a new one to be save.;)
looks like you will soon have a nice cooler setup .

[Bob Kraemer]

Any 0-100 PSI gauge will work.
I made my own cooler out of an old race car fuel tank about 3 gallons in size, an automatic trans cooler & a pump I brought from Grainger.
I have an older Miller 330 APB welder I attached the trans cooler in back of the welder where the fan is. I also attached a by-pass line to the pump with a ball valve to by-pass water back to the tank so I could set the pressure at 30PSI
I also made manifolds for the gas & water lines. I have 2 torches attached to my welder. The water manifold allows water to circulate through both torches at the same time, on the gas manifold I used high quality ball valves so I could shut off the gas to which ever torch wasn't being used.

Bob Kraemer

[Bighead]

Goat,
want to sell one of heat exchanger you are not going to use?

[Sundown]

Wher can I get a water pressure gauge?
The small muffin fan is the same as yours and the exchanger is aboutthe same maby a little bigger only it hace 1/4". Sounds like it just might work.
Thanks for the response.

I generally get stuff like that at http://www.surpluscenter.com

[goatwelder]

Any 0-100 PSI gauge will work.
I

Do you mean any water gauge will work? I assume that the air type wont work.

[goatwelder]

Goat,
want to sell one of heat exchanger you are not going to use?
Probably since the other one won't be doing me much good. I just have to play with them for a bit. Do I go for maximum cooling power knoing it’s the last system I will ever need for any welder I might end up with, or small and convenient and probably quieter unit. I tested the big one. Warm water goes in and cold water comes out. I haven’t tries the small one yet.

[goatwelder]

Any 0-100 PSI gauge will work.
I also attached a by-pass line to the pump with a ball valve to by-pass water back to the tank so I could set the pressure at 30PSI

Bob Kraemer
I have that HP water pump but it has way to much flow. I was thinking last night that maybe I could hook up a ball valve and make the pressure adjustable. Thanks for the post. Now I know it will work and I will save some $$.

[Bob Kraemer]

I just use an standard air pressure gauge on mine. Been on there for the past 15 years and no problems. I probably don't use my welder as much as most here. I put a by-pass line on my cooler because I wasn't sure if the small plastic lines and fittings in the torch head would handel 60 PSI. I figured better safe than sorry.

Bob Kraemer

[CarmenElectrode]

You will probably need a positive displacement pump. Most people (including manufacturers) use a carbonator pump off a soda dispenser. It is a vane pump with a built in presure relief valve. They are available on e-bay, i got a whole pump assy with tank for about 60 bucks used. I'm sure there are plenty other ways of doing it but many here have been sucessful with the carbonator. BTW you will need about 50-60 psi for a 20 series water cooled torch, that presure should yeild the recommended 1-1.5 qt/min flow.

The pumps manufacturers use for water coolers are similar to the soda dispenser pumps but with some differences... they are made by Procon:
http://www.proconpumps.com/Catalog.htm
and they have a strainer, and the valve setting is different.
Official replacement pumps for coolers like the Coolmate or a Bernard water cooler will have all the fittings to connect to that machine. Probably not necessary if you're building your own. :)
Good luck... and most of all, Have Fun!

[goatwelder]

Got the pump working today. It’s ½ horse. Way to powerful but it will work for now. That ball valve idea worked great. Later on I want to get one of those carbonator bumps. They would probably be quieter since they are only using ¼ to 1/3 horse. This one isn’t to bad. I will probably pick up a torch tomorrow and check out the flow rate. I want to hook up some kind of filter. Any ideas?
I have a water torch adapter for my TA185 coming in later this week. Then I’ll get to the real testing.

[Sundown]

Got the pump working today. It’s ½ horse. Way to powerful but it will work for now. That ball valve idea worked great. Later on I want to get one of those carbonator bumps. They would probably be quieter since they are only using ¼ to 1/3 horse. This one isn’t to bad. I will probably pick up a torch tomorrow and check out the flow rate. I want to hook up some kind of filter. Any ideas?
I have a water torch adapter for my TA185 coming in later this week. Then I’ll get to the real testing.

Looks like you are almost there, good idea on that ball valve setup. You are right about being quiet, my motor is a 1/6 hp and fan is super quiet.

[fun4now]

wow that thing is looking great.:D
have you considerd useing an auto fule filter? it will pop right into the line no problem. also you might want to instal some form of flow indicator just incase it gets cloged you will know and can stop welding befor you trash the torch.;)
did you use the big tank setup or the small one??

[goatwelder]

wow that thing is looking great.:D
have you considerd useing an auto fule filter? it will pop right into the line no problem. also you might want to instal some form of flow indicator just incase it gets cloged you will know and can stop welding befor you trash the torch.;)
did you use the big tank setup or the small one??
Thanks fun. I was looking at fuel filters yesterday but was concerned about restricting the flow. Those things are not made to pass that kind of volume. I was thinking about some kind of screen that was fine enough to catch large particles but open enough to not restrict the flow. That pump is right on the edge already. It’s so powerful that it starts to complain when I shut the ball valve off to the point where the pressure goes over 30psi. It’s meant to move high volumes of water and restricting it causes the motor to lug. It seems to be good with 30psi and under. Most of the water is going through the ball valve.

[shadetreewelder]

Here's something that might give you an idea...

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6432

[goatwelder]

you might want to instal some form of flow indicator just incase it gets cloged you will know and can stop welding befor you trash the torch.;)
did you use the big tank setup or the small one??
That’s a good idea. Where can you get one?
I used the large tank since it had extra lines that I used for the pressure relief.

[fun4now]

i was going to say rather than restrict the flow to reduce the presher maybee you could just divert some back to the tank threw another line, but it sounds like you did that .:rolleyes: or i missunderstood your post. the large metal fule filters that go inline on autos are usualy just a screen in the center of a large metal can, almost soda pop sized, not the lil ones but the standerd replacement filter for my truck would work perfect to just catch the biger stuff that might end up in your cooler, but not restrict flow.

not shoure where to get a flow meeter for it just thought it would be a good ideal. i would call arc-zone and ask them if they dont have one on there site, other places may also have them i just recomend arc-zone as they have always been real good about ansering my ???? when i call them almost as good as walking in to the shop.;)

[Sundown]

Best deal on flow meters I have seen is the one the used on the Miller coolmate 3, less than $15 from your local Miller part dealer.

[Bob Kraemer]

Goat,
Looks good so far, but **** thats a big pump about 75% bigger than the one I use. Send an email reminder for me to look up the part # for the pump I use.
The only thing I don't like about the pump I use is it can be noisy but thats probably because I don't have a rubber flex coupling between the pump and motor, and using to large of an electric motor. The only thing I bought was the pump, special fittings for manifolds & good ball valves. The rest of stuff I used I already had. The pump I use is like a mini small block chevy pump with a bronze housing

James & others,
The By-pass line and ball valve idea I sugested to Goat really doesn't restrict flow, it just takes away volume the small lines can't handel. What the system can't handel will just increase pressure.

Bob Kraemer
rkelectric1@hotmail.com

[fun4now]

i thought you had instaled a ball valve to retrict the flow at first but wasent shoure thats why i said if you havent already done it maybee you could just divert some back to the tank threw another line. it seems that is what you did i just wasent shore by what i had read so far.just throwing it out ther as it would be the way i would go about droping the flow and presher if i had to use a larger punp.. just trying to offer another ideal or clarify what you did to help you or others in this same situation down the road. not trying to step on any toes.;)

i was going to say rather than restrict the flow to reduce the presher maybee you could just divert some back to the tank threw another line, but it sounds like you did that . or i missunderstood your post

[Bob Kraemer]

James,
No problem.
You didn't step on any toes, if it sounded like I meant that I apologize.
I was just trying to clarify about the ball valve in the by-pass line and what it does.

Bob Kraemer
rkelectric1@hotmail.com

[fun4now]

no problem, thats the same ideal i had, i just didnt understand how your valve worked,i thought you just intended to restrict the flow rather than divert it back to the tank threw another line, it turns out your's works the way i was thinking raher than restrict just reroute it so the punp isent being bogged down.. so between the 2 of us hopefully every one will understand. that is the gole here so i dont think any toes are in danger.:)

[Bob Kraemer]

James,
Here is an idea for you to make some extra money!
Design a blue print for an in-expensive water cooler complete with a parts list and sell it to others. Parts and material should be under 300.00
Sure beats paying a grand or more for an OEM or after market unit.

Bob Kraemer
rkelectric1@hotmail.com

[Fishy Jim]

Someone's already doing that on ebay.

Most of the components people seem to use are what they can find cheap anyway. There's a guy selling remaned pumps on ebay for like 35 bucks. Add that to a dayton motor from graingers and you have a new pump assembly for under $100. Then it's a matter of your skill (or desire) how to proceed with the tank and frame. The guy on ebay says to use a 5 gal bucket and strap the components to it - it looks cheesy.

[Bighead]

DON'T BUY THE PLANS ON E-BAY!!!! what a waste of money! I have bought a copy of them and will :( If any you whats copies just ask! :D

[Fishy Jim]

There's more than enough people around here who'll gladly help get you going on a cooler to make selling plans not worth the trouble of making the listing, let alone the plans.

[fun4now]

if i could get a TIG i wouldnt mind makeing coolers for sail on e-bay, that would be werth doing and something i could probly get done for under $200 and sell for like $250-$300.
if memery serves me right about the best you can get a cooler for on e-bay is usualy around $350 and up. even at a $50 profit i wouldnt mind makeing them it would be fun and some thing i could do here at home. i supose a maxstar 150 would do the job, looking at what around $1000 to get it set up and ready to use?????
once again gota have the $$$ to make it.:(

i agree trying to sell the plans will end up just getting lost in all the other listings and i'd end up spending more on listing's than makeing off the sails, also i would need to make one to have a pic of the finished product befor any one would consider buying my plans. i could always relist and sell coppies of the pantograph prints i went in on buying.:p just kidding. i supose i could look into makeing the first few coolers with my O/A setup (goatwelder interested in donating your unused smaller tank setup to a good cause.:D ) maybee ill look into geting some SS sheet and some brazing rod. can you braze SS ??see back to needing the TIG setup.:rolleyes: and life goes on.

[goatwelder]

Best deal on flow meters I have seen is the one the used on the Miller coolmate 3, less than $15 from your local Miller part dealer.
Thats good to know. I can order one tomarrow. I will be in the shop because my torch stuff is supposed to be in. :D :D
Thanks

[goatwelder]

the large metal fule filters that go inline on autos are usualy just a screen in the center of a large metal can, almost soda pop sized, not the lil ones but the standerd replacement filter for my truck would work perfect to just catch the biger stuff that might end up in your cooler, but not restrict flow.
;)
I was looking at the small metal filters in checker but cant see whats in them so I didn't buy one. I should have asked for help.

[goatwelder]

Goat,
Looks good so far, but **** thats a big pump about 75% bigger than the one I use. Send an email reminder for me to look up the part # for the pump I use.
The only thing I don't like about the pump I use is it can be noisy but thats probably because I don't have a rubber flex coupling between the pump and motor, and using to large of an electric motor. The only thing I bought was the pump, special fittings for manifolds & good ball valves. The rest of stuff I used I already had. The pump I use is like a mini small block chevy pump with a bronze housing

James & others,
The By-pass line and ball valve idea I sugested to Goat really doesn't restrict flow, it just takes away volume the small lines can't handel. What the system can't handel will just increase pressure.

Bob Kraemer
rkelectric1@hotmail.com
The good thing about theis HF pump is that it cost about $25 on sale and I already had it. I willprobably get one of those carbonator pumps at a later date. I have to first get over the shock of spending all the $$ on the new torch and cable cover as well as the $40 already spent on misc. parts like tubing and fittings. Over all I'm getting off really cheap.

[Bighead]

Goat,
Did you figure out what cooler you are going to use? I will take the one you don't use off your hands:confused: just let me know what you want for it? sorry to be a bug but I need to make a cooler too:D thanks and good luck on your cooler!

And anyone I bought a cooler plan off e-bay(don't waste your money) if anyone wants a copy let me know I will send a copy your way:D

Bighead

[goatwelder]

Goat,
Did you figure out what cooler you are going to use? I will take the one you don't use off your hands:confused: just let me know what you want for it? sorry to be a bug but I need to make a cooler too:D thanks and good luck on your cooler!

And anyone I bought a cooler plan off e-bay(don't waste your money) if anyone wants a copy let me know I will send a copy your way:D

Bighead
I hooked up the large cooler but haven’t tried it out yet because my torch stuff still hasn’t come in. I’m hoping tomorrow. I want to use it for a while and see how it performs. Then I want to try the smaller exchanger and compare the two. If there is no noticeable difference I will probably use the smaller since it is more likely to be quieter. You may not want to wait the long. If you are not in a hurry I you can have dibs on it. I’ll just need a few bucks to handle shipping.

[Bighead]

Goat,
I not in a hurry, I still waiting for my DIN for my SD180 So I will take dibs on either one:D Thanks!!
Bighead

[Bighead]

Goat,
Do you decide on what cooler to use? could use one I finally got my DIN so now I need to make a cooler. Thanks!

[fun4now]

i just got the motor to make my cooler prototype for e-bay, so i now have all the parts ready. any chance you could send me a copy of those plans??? I'm just curious how they set it up as it might give me some ideals for my build that i didn't think of.;)
you can e-mail me at bad2thebone@att.net
although i have a few other projects in the works right now, i should get back to work on it by this weekend (depends on the hunny do list :p ) i would still like to have it on e-bay be for the month is out if i can get it done:confused: .the wife has been bugging me for more doll $$$ :o

P.S. you have your e-mail option turned off so i couldn't e-mail you directly.
thanks
James