Miller or Tweco MIG gun for old feeder

[MAC702]

I have an old Millermatic 80A (wirefeeder only, not an all-in-one) feeder that I use with my TB301G. I received it along with the old CP-200 3-phase MIG that I put in storage. Anyway, this feeder looks as if it doesn't have a stock MIG gun connection. When I received it, it had a K&K gun. Despite that being an ITW company (at least at that time) parts were impossible to get. So I eBayed a Harris gun with a Tweco back-end. It fit and worked great. Now, other than this experience, I've never had to pay attention to the gun connections on feeders. But, I need a new gun for two reasons. First, that old Harris was old and got really warm during use (probably why the other guy sold it in the first place.) Second, I can't for the life of me find the stupid thing. It was on a different feeder (a PowCon Powerdrive, which I believe was also a Tweco-style connection) and when I took it off of that I don't know where it went. I've looked everywhere for it. I need to use the feeder soon and I guess I'll just have to suck it up and replace the gun for now. With newer SuitCases in my hopefully near future, it shouldn't be too much of a waste anyway.

So the question becomes, do I need a Tweco-style hookup? Is a Miller style equivilent? What else will work? I see a few guns on eBay and am thinking of getting one but want to make sure it'll be the right one. I'd like a really nice one for a change. How about a Miller Roughneck? What class of gun is the Miller M25? There's also a Binzel #2 or #3, as well as a few Twecos. Any preferences? Am I limited to something that promises a "Tweco-style" connection?

Thanks for your experienced input.

[unixadm]

I've got a Roughneck 4012, Binzel Alpha 2 and had a Miller M-25 on my MM 251. My favorite gun is the Binzel Alpha 2, 250amp gun. It is very comfortable and the whip is nice and flexible. The Roughneck is a big rough to use, so it's name fits. It's a 400amp gun, the cable is stiff as a board and the gun is pretty heavy - but this is really a requirement when you are doing pulsed mig. I don't use it on my 350P as the daily gun, the Binzel took it's place for anything but pulsed mig.

The M-25 isn't a bad gun. I found it to be pretty comfortable to use. It's not a real heavy duty gun, but it gets the job done in the 250amp range. I don't know how well it holds up under spray though - I only used mine for short circuit.

Can't help with the feeder, but I figured I'd post since I have or have had the guns you asked about. Binzel's are nice and you can get supplies from http://www.weldingsupply.com. They stock most all of the Binzel and Bernard parts which are hard to find locally and especially on the 'net. Just get the part numbers from http://www.abicorusa.com and search them out on their site if you need anything. That holds true for most all brands - they are a good vendor.

The Binzel Alpha 3 is a 350amp gun. I may pick up one of these to become my pulsed gun on the 350P.

[MAC702]

Thanks very much for that information. It reminds me that I need to say what I will be doing with the gun to get the best for the purpose.

With this feeder, I am limited to .045" wires. It will accept my gas hook-up, but I've never tried it. I always just use it in the field with the FCAW process. So a good gun for basic .045" FCAW is all I need on this feeder.

Does this help narrow the advice? Would a Miller Ironmate be a better choice? I need to be able to comfortably weld thin tubing (.065" wall) up through the upper capabilities of .045 wires and the TB301G when necessary.

I think I would prefer to be on the flexible side, and I'm sure I would want the 15' length, unless there's good opinions out there as to why shorter might be better.

[DDA52]

Hey, Mac.

I have a Radnor 250 on my feeder. It is available with a Tweco backend. It is made by Tweco for Radnor. Basically it is a tiny bit heavier, rebadged Tweco #2. The cable is three times or more, flexible than the M-25. It will handle all your TB302 can throw at it as well. 60% duty cycle at 250a and 10% at 320a. It uses Tweco 14 series consumables..easy to find..esp when out and about.


FWIW, p/n 64002622 mdl # 250154045...15' cable with .040/.045 wire conduit. ( I run .030 and .035 in the .045 conduit with no troubles. Paid about $180 for it.)

[unixadm]

Mac,

Based on what you've mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the Binzel Alpha 2. I'm only speaking from my experience with the different guns I listed. There are a LOT of great guns out there, but Binzel, for the price ($129), works great. It supports .035/.045 by default. I bought mine off Ebay with the Miller back end, but you can get different backends for it from any Binzel distributor.

[DDA52]

I wanted to try one and almost got one off of Epay. What stopped me was the absolute lack of local support. No one had even heard of Binzel. :( ...much less get parts and consumables. Airgas has the p/n's in their catalog, so I asked them about the consumables. I had to show them the parts in their own catalog, they didn't even know it existed. :rolleyes: So, after finding out that they could special order everything I would need at almost triple the price of Tweco consumables plus freight...I stuck with something I could actually get consumables for locally.

I have said it many times before, and I will say it again...The San Antonio market is an absolute joke when it comes to welding supplies. :mad:

[unixadm]

I can't get much in the way of Binzel here as well. Same goes for Bernard. However now that I found http://www.weldingsupply.com, I can order pretty much every part for Miller, Binzel or Bernard, including CENTERFIRE consumables which are next to impossible to find on-line. They are a good vendor and deliver in about a week (They are on the East Coast, I'm on the West Coast). A pack of 25 .035 Binzel tips were $20-25 - can't remember exactly. Not too bad - they last a long time and are pretty stout tips. You can even use Tweco tips in the Binzel - Scott V has info on that.

[DDA52]

Man, those tips are expensive! :eek: I am paying maybe 12 bucks for 25 of the Tweco's and less for the generics..and no shipping. ;)

I could have gotten them online. The shipping is a problem here. I live outside town and the mail is NOT reliable. Delivery companies are better, but they still won't leave parcels every now and then. All things considered, I thought better of going out on a limb at that time. Now that I have the Tweco, maybe a Alpha would be more practical since there is now a back up.

[unixadm]

I will say that the Binzel tips are pretty heavy duty. There is a lot of copper in those things. Nothing like a Miller M-25 tip. :)

I love the Alpha 2 though. I bought an Alpha 1 for my Passport. I went with a '12. It's rated for 180amps.

I liked the look of the Tweco Supra gun - but I never see those for sale anywhere.

[DDA52]

Yup, I like the Tweco Supra as well. :cool:

The Miller tips are not that heavy, that is for sure. I have blown a few of them apart, but then they are easy to get and not expensive. I am using 14 series tips in my feeder gun. When it gets hot and heavy, I will use the 14H tips. Way heavier. Do the Binzel tips compare to the "H" tips?

[DDA52]

This gun has been a pretty good one. It is an American Torch Tip Lightning Gun. 15' and 400amps. Tweco tips fit, but you have to slide the nozzle foreward a little. No big deal.

[unixadm]

Not sure. I went out and grabbed a Miller M-25 tip and a Binzel .045 tip and took a picture.

You can see the difference here: http://www.dmwtech.com/gallery2/v/welding/machines/binzel/

Binzel Tip: .313" Diameter, 1.10" Length
Miller Tip: .250" Diameter, 1.125" Length

[DDA52]

The Binzels do look beefier. I finally got out and did a comp shot of my own. Here are my .035 tips..Left to right they are...Tweco 11-35, Miller .035, Tweco 14-35, and Tweco 14H-35. The H tips are much heavier. I should have measured it....shoot, it took several days just to get the pic. :rolleyes: Oh well..maybe next time. :D

[Fishy Jim]

The binzel looks like it would work in a tweco. Have you checked the threads?

[unixadm]

The threads are the same - but Scott V knows more about this than I do. Maybe he'll chime in. I know he has said he's used Tweco tips in his Binzel.

I'm sold on Binzel though. I bought the extra do-dads to go with my guns, like gun hangers and stuff. I would also like to try a Bernard Q series gun with Centerfire consumables.

[KB Fabrications]

I would also like to try a Bernard Q series gun with Centerfire consumables.

I bet you would bag the Binzel if you did. :D