Dynasty 200DX with MVP cord/plugs??

[eyecandy]

Is it possible to use one of the MVP cords/plugs with the Dynasty 200DX? I asked because I like my Passport Plus with the MVP, however after looking at the parts manual I believe I would need the DVI2 cord, since they are both 12ga wire (opposed the PPs 14ga). Has anyone done the swap?

I am looking to do it for simplicty sake in extra outlets/wire plus it is nice to be able to swap the plugs quickly if I need to connect it to a 110 outlet. Plus the 2ft longer cord can be nice, I found with my PP+ it would have come in hand..

Thanks for the help!

[tasslehawf]

You could but you're probably better off just making a few different pigtails. I've got a 3ph 4 wire plug on my welder, a 4 wire extension cord and then a 3 wire 1ph adapter and a 120 that plugs into that.

[KB Fabrications]

Do a search. This has been covered so many times it's rediculous.:rolleyes:

[Awestech]

Eyecandy,
I am doing that exact mod to my Dynasty 200 DX tomorrow. I'll post how it went after I get it done.
Mike

[Broccoli1]

Why?

You can make a Pigtail for less than 20 bux.

How much does the MVP power Cord and MVP plugs cost?

[ASKANDY]

Dude,
Don't bother. It won't work as a direct wire replacement cord. The 4 wires in the Dynasty are set up for single OR 3 phase. The MVP cords 4 wire set up is for single phase tapping off different parts of a main input transformer. You can not directly wire the MVP plug to the Dynasty because in one configuration you would be trying to run single phase into the 3 phase wire of the Dynasty. Won't work. Not advised. Void warranty.

Andy

[TS-Off-Road]

Dude,
Don't bother. It won't work as a direct wire replacement cord. The 4 wires in the Dynasty are set up for single OR 3 phase. The MVP cords 4 wire set up is for single phase tapping off different parts of a main input transformer. You can not directly wire the MVP plug to the Dynasty because in one configuration you would be trying to run single phase into the 3 phase wire of the Dynasty. Won't work. Not advised. Void warranty.

Andy

It can and has been done. I've done it, and it works. You lose the 3-phase option though.

[eyecandy]

Thanks for the responses, I will have to do a little bit of searching, I called up Miller the DVI2 cord is about $70, I have a 110 and 230 plug for my PP+ can can just easily swap the 110 between the two, and purchase a second 230MVP.

I understand its not the most economical way to do this, I just worry getting wires crossed or not being about to find a plug/outlet.

Anyone have links on custom adapters?

You could but you're probably better off just making a few different pigtails. I've got a 3ph 4 wire plug on my welder, a 4 wire extension cord and then a 3 wire 1ph adapter and a 120 that plugs into that.

DO you have any pics or part numbers for the adapters?

Eyecandy,
I am doing that exact mod to my Dynasty 200 DX tomorrow. I'll post how it went after I get it done.
Mike

Please let me know how it turns out and post up some pics!!



Dude,
Don't bother. It won't work as a direct wire replacement cord. The 4 wires in the Dynasty are set up for single OR 3 phase. The MVP cords 4 wire set up is for single phase tapping off different parts of a main input transformer. You can not directly wire the MVP plug to the Dynasty because in one configuration you would be trying to run single phase into the 3 phase wire of the Dynasty. Won't work. Not advised. Void warranty.

Andy

I kinda don't follow, they are both 12G 4C cords, one has a bare end while the other is a termiated/adapter end. Wire is wire, so the MVP would be connected the same as the Dynasty... Afterall I though the Dynasty is automatically detects the voltage so all I would be doing is switching the MVP plugs....same as wiring up/installing a plug on the existing Dynasty cord except u just get it done faster....

My 3yr warranty is up in a month... I guess not much too worry there.

As for the 3phase, I don not for see me needing that feature, if there is an instance I would need it, I would say they already have the welder I need...

[eyecandy]

A little addition I would like to make, it dawned on me afterwards. I unstand about not being about to use the 3ph since there is no 3ph MVP which is no big deal for me seeing as I will use 230 in the garage, and most likely 110 on the road, and I have only seen 3ph in industrial applications which I do not see me going there.

[cruizer]

It can and has been done. I've done it, and it works. You lose the 3-phase option though.

Ahhh NO, on a single phase dynasty you use the black and the white wires, 3 phase you use the red. If you are using the red in single phase you will smoke the boost board and generally take out the mother board when the boost board craps out, and get absoutly zero warranty on it.

[ASKANDY]

Ahhh NO, on a single phase dynasty you use the black and the white wires, 3 phase you use the red. If you are using the red in single phase you will smoke the boost board and generally take out the mother board when the boost board craps out, and get absoutly zero warranty on it.

10-4 Pretty much what I was saying.
TS-
I KNOW it can be done. But most people hook up all 4 wires just as they sit and that is WRONG. You actually have to piggyback 2 of the MVP wires together to use the proper single phase input.
Still voiding the warranty.

A

[TS-Off-Road]

Ahhh NO, on a single phase dynasty you use the black and the white wires, 3 phase you use the red. If you are using the red in single phase you will smoke the boost board and generally take out the mother board when the boost board craps out, and get absoutly zero warranty on it.

No what??? Are you speaking from experience or just guessing???

I've done it. It works fine. As far as voiding the warranty, if it's wired correctly with the MVP cord I don't see how that could happen. You could just as easily void the warranty wiring a standard plug incorrectly.

[TS-Off-Road]

I have a thread somewhere on this board with pics on how its done

[cruizer]

No what??? Are you speaking from experience or just guessing???

I've done it. It works fine. As far as voiding the warranty, if it's wired correctly with the MVP cord I don't see how that could happen. You could just as easily void the warranty wiring a standard plug incorrectly.

Hmmm, I'm a Miller CST tech, I've seen it before, and no warranty for the fella or firm that did it. I've seen lots of wierd stuff that customers have done to thier machines and expect warranty on. These guys I either tell that they have to pay for the repair or send them on there way...

[wrenchnride247]

I changed the power cord that came with my Dynasty 200
to a 10/3 cable. So there is nothing attached to L3, and if the need comes-up for three phase I'll put the 12/4 back on it. There's nothing wrong with this right?

[cruizer]

no worries.

[wrenchnride247]

Thank's. I didn't think so, but just checking anyway since there was a thread about it. :D

[Awestech]

Why?

You can make a Pigtail for less than 20 bux.

How much does the MVP power Cord and MVP plugs cost?

The cord was $70, the 220 plug was $13. The cost was irrelevent, I just want the easiest, cleanest way to switch from 110 to 220.

Dude,
Don't bother. It won't work as a direct wire replacement cord. The 4 wires in the Dynasty are set up for single OR 3 phase. The MVP cords 4 wire set up is for single phase tapping off different parts of a main input transformer. You can not directly wire the MVP plug to the Dynasty because in one configuration you would be trying to run single phase into the 3 phase wire of the Dynasty. Won't work. Not advised. Void warranty.

Andy

Thanks for the input Andy.
Andy, Cruizer, please look over my mod and tell me why it won't work correctly. I assumed the L3 connection at the switch, where the red wire was originally wired, is a dedicated third phase input. Is that assumption correct?

With the cover off.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=71

Closer view of the stock power cable. Notice the orientation of the red and black wires going into the switch.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=74

Closeup view of the installed MVP cable. Notice the reversed red and black wires going to the switch.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=73

220V plug I am using.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=72

After testing the MVP 220V plug-to-wire connections, I found that the ground terminal at the plug is correct and goes to the green wire of the cable. I found that the large terminal at the plug goes correctly to the white wire of the MVP cable. HOWEVER, I found that the small terminal of the plug goes to the red wire of the MVP cable. If the L3 terminal of the switch is in fact a dedicated third phase input to the welder, simply wiring the switch with the same wire colors on the MVP cable as used with the stock cable would cause damage to the machine.
So to wire it correctly I wired the red (which corresponds to the small terminal of the 220v plug) to L1 at the switch, where the black wire originally was, the white (which corresponds to the larger terminal of the 220v plug) remained at L2, and the black is hooked to L3. Of course the ground terminal correctly corresponded to the green wire which I reconnected back to the chassis ground terminal.
Technically, I could have left the black wire disconnected at the switch because it doesn't correspond to anything at the 220v plug. As a matter of fact, I don't even know why Miller made the MVP cable a four wire/prong cable as the black wire doesn't go to any plug terminal, at least not on the 220v plug. I can only imagine it was put there to accomodate a three phase plug in the future.
When I get my 110v plug, I'll double check to make sure the small terminal=red, the large terminal=white and the ground terminal=green.

Anything wrong with my methodology guys?

Thanks for checkin' it out.
Mike

[cruizer]

Nothing wrong, may be a little confusing for the guy repairing it Would have been easier to simply put a different plug on the exsisting cord though. I'd be more inclined to remove that black wire all together though if you intend to use that setup. We as techs have to go through a myriad of preinspections for that particular unit before we even fire it up.

[ASKANDY]

YES IT IS WRONG.

Like I said before. The red is for 3phase and if you are running single phase (no matter what voltage) into that machine, the red terminal should NEVER be used.

The way you have it now, in one of your selected voltage inputs, you are trying to run single phase into the DEDICATED 3 phase input line.
The reason the MVP is 4 wires is that the other wire is used for the 115V plug. It taps off a different part of the main transformer in the machine it was designed for.
This is exactly why we don't approve of this cord change.

Andy

[FusionKing]

Oh I love this thread!!
The OP gets it (I think) but we bring out new people who think they should do exactly what they are told not to because they are FIXATED on proving that there is a way!!!
Even if it was ok the machine is still LIMITED! If Miller had wanted to limit the Dynasty 200 they would have saved millions.
Sheesh...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[cruizer]

This guy is being goofy, yes he is running that mpv cord but on 230 so the colours are coded different, in this case L3 must be eliminated, so he needs to drop it before he accidenty blows the machine.

[Awestech]

TS Offroad,
I found the thread with your mod pictures and found the link to the MVP/DVI manual with the diagrams and info I needed. Thank you. After reviewing the MVP plug/cable/wire relationships given in the DVI manual, I don't see any reason why your mod is not correct for 110-220 MVP operation as long as 3 phase operation is not desired.
Andy or cruizer, could you please comment on this.
Thanks,
Mike

[cruizer]

I'm on the fence here on this one. Andy is the chief, so without a written, and signed ok from Miller to use thier MVP plugs in this manner, I'll have to say don't even bother with this idea. If I did it, I'd loose my repair status.
Put it that way.

[Awestech]

I'm on the fence here on this one. Andy is the chief, so without a written, and signed ok from Miller to use thier MVP plugs in this manner, I'll have to say don't even bother with this idea. If I did it, I'd loose my repair status.
Put it that way.

Thanks Cruizer, I appreciate your candor.
Yes, I understand that you and especially Andy have to toe the party line and say that this mod is "not recommended". So I really don't expect either of you to say "go ahead and do it, it's a great idea".
But, after reviewing the DVI(MVP) manual electrical diagrams, I see no reason why TS Offroads wiring method wouldn't work correctly. And if there is actually a concrete technical reason (other than three-phase operation mitigation) it won't work correctly, I would really appreciate hearing about it.
One thing that I found interesting about that other thread was the discussion about no internal circuit protection on the Dynasty 200DX; thus using a 6-50p plug (on a 50 amp circuit) would not properly protect the welder from overcurrent. Miller must recognize that the 6-50p plug is probably the most common plug wired on this welder even using the stock power cable. Interesting.
Thanks again,
Mike

[cruizer]

Well, it's your breaker that protects the circuit not the plug, so even if you have a 100 amp plug installed on a 20 amp breaker. It's your breaker that is going to protect the welder. Besides there is a bunch of current limiting and over current sense devices in the machine, that protect it from surging and stuff. It'll shut down and go to a temporary fault code.
The 50 amp plug is just a standard and common receptacle

[Awestech]

Well, it's your breaker that protects the circuit not the plug, so even if you have a 100 amp plug installed on a 20 amp breaker. It's your breaker that is going to protect the welder. Besides there is a bunch of current limiting and over current sense devices in the machine, that protect it from surging and stuff. It'll shut down and go to a temporary fault code.
The 50 amp plug is just a standard and common receptacle

Thanks Cruizer for the info about the current limiting protection. I figured the welder had to have some type of internal protection. It wouldn't be prudent not to design it with something.

Here's my redone wiring. Black and white are going to L1, Red is going to L2 and nothing is hooked to L3. I will test it out tomorrow unless someone puts forth a credible TECHNICAL explanation why it won't work correctly (and thank you in advance if you do).
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=75

Thanks,
Mike

[moto-scoot]

I think the MVP cord set you would want to buy for a Dynasty is one off a Millermatic Passport, if I recall it only has 3-wires (Hot for 115 or 230, neutral and ground). Not one off the DVI that has four wire cord set, separate hots for 115 or 230.

[davedarragh]

What part of that statement, don't they understand? :confused::confused:

Dave

[Awestech]

Thanks Andy, Cruizer and TS Offroad,
I picked up a 110v plug today and tried the welder out. It works perfectly for both 110 and 220v.
So I may be a "goofball", or somebody that "doesn't understand", but my welder is working perfectly with the MVP cable so I don't have to use adapter cords or anything like that. Just easy simple adapter plugs.
Maybe Miller will come up with an MVP setup for the Dynasty in the future. It seems like alot of people would be interested in that.
:)
Mike

[FusionKing]

Thanks Andy, Cruizer and TS Offroad,
I picked up a 110v plug today and tried the welder out. It works perfectly for both 110 and 220v.
So I may be a "goofball", or somebody that "doesn't understand", but my welder is working perfectly with the MVP cable so I don't have to use adapter cords or anything like that. Just easy simple adapter plugs.
Maybe Miller will come up with an MVP setup for the Dynasty in the future. It seems like alot of people would be interested in that.
:)
Mike

Why in the heck would they do that??? So it would be LESS versatile?

[popspipes]

I left the factory cord on mine and cut off the red wire and installed a 230 volt plug single phase on the black and white wires.

My reasoning is if it has to go back for service it will have the correct lead on it and wired as per the manual, then it wont be a problem for the tech to figure out what has been done, and no question on the warranty.

mike sr

[Awestech]

I left the factory cord on mine and cut off the red wire and installed a 230 volt plug single phase on the black and white wires.

My reasoning is if it has to go back for service it will have the correct lead on it and wired as per the manual, then it wont be a problem for the tech to figure out what has been done, and no question on the warranty.

mike sr

Good idea,
That's why I saved my old cable. ;)

[FusionKing]

Good idea,
That's why I saved my old cable. ;)


I cannot really believe you man...
I would never admit that on an open forum. but I would not act like that either!
You asked about the cord and a Miller certified tech told you not to do it and ANDY himself told you not to do it. He services all the Sprint Cup team welders and runs the traveling display as well as many other things. He knows those machines inside and out!!
By not taking their advice and doing exactly what they told you not to do, you have...
SPIT in their faces on Millers own forum.
Then you THANK THEM!!!
Like nice words will make it ok.ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. And now you say, if you have a problem you will attempt to decieve whomever you have work on it, by changing your cord back. You must be a lawyer!!!:eek:

If you are so stinkin' smart that you can do whatever you wish with the cord against Millers wishes, then you ought to be smart enuff to fix it yourself if you have a problem:p
I don't know who raised you but I would like to hope that maybe they had taught you better than to be so defient and decieving. I hope I never have to deal with you in my business, altho I do run across people like you from time to time, who try to hide the facts about why things broke. They are always tryin to get things fixed for free. This is why insurance costs are so high.
The term FRAUD comes to mind.

If you feel like what you have posted so far is what a good and honest person would do then that explains a lot IMO. I like dealing with honest folks myself. Hopefully someday you will come around as well.
You can go back and edit your posts but mine will stand and people will read this and know what you are truly like from now on.

[KB Fabrications]

Good lord! http://slagpit.com/forums/images/smilies/doh1.gif :rolleyes:

[davedarragh]

Reminds me of the guys who used to put air shocks on their cars to "jack up" the rear, and wonder why it caused FRONT END alignment problems!:eek:

"When I sell the car, I'll put the other shocks on!" :D

Dave

[Awestech]

I left the factory cord on mine and cut off the red wire and installed a 230 volt plug single phase on the black and white wires.

My reasoning is if it has to go back for service it will have the correct lead on it and wired as per the manual, then it wont be a problem for the tech to figure out what has been done, and no question on the warranty.

mike sr

I cannot really believe you man...
I would never admit that on an open forum. but I would not act like that either!
You asked about the cord and a Miller certified tech told you not to do it and ANDY himself told you not to do it. He services all the Sprint Cup team welders and runs the traveling display as well as many other things. He knows those machines inside and out!!
By not taking their advice and doing exactly what they told you not to do, you have...
SPIT in their faces on Millers own forum.
Then you THANK THEM!!!
Like nice words will make it ok.ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. And now you say, if you have a problem you will attempt to decieve whomever you have work on it, by changing your cord back. You must be a lawyer!!!:eek:

If you are so stinkin' smart that you can do whatever you wish with the cord against Millers wishes, then you ought to be smart enuff to fix it yourself if you have a problem:p
I don't know who raised you but I would like to hope that maybe they had taught you better than to be so defient and decieving. I hope I never have to deal with you in my business, altho I do run across people like you from time to time, who try to hide the facts about why things broke. They are always tryin to get things fixed for free. This is why insurance costs are so high.
The term FRAUD comes to mind.

If you feel like what you have posted so far is what a good and honest person would do then that explains a lot IMO. I like dealing with honest folks myself. Hopefully someday you will come around as well.
You can go back and edit your posts but mine will stand and people will read this and know what you are truly like from now on.

Fusionking,
Saving the cord has nothing to do with deceipt or fraud. If you actually read the post that I was responding to, he said "My reasoning is if it has to go back for service it will have the correct lead on it and wired as per the manual, then it wont be a problem for the tech to figure out what has been done" which is what I agree with. If I have to send my welder in for service, I don't want the tech to have to spend an hour trying to figure out why it is wired like that.
And yes, I am thanking Cruizer and Andy and I absolutely agree that they both know exactly what they are talking about. However I also know that they cannot come out and say, "go ahead, do this mod". Electrically, there is absolutely nothing incorrect about the way I have it wired now and they know it. Again, if there is a concrete TECHNICAL reason why it can't be wired this way, other than not being able to use the third phase input, I would really appreciate their input.
And to answer your question; fortunately yes, I am smart enough to repair this machine if I need to, but unfortunately I don't have access to the engineering design documents of this machine like they do. So again, thank you Cruizer and Andy.
So you can continue your ad hominem rant about my character, because it really is entertaining. The people that know me know that I am honest and straight forward and am not looking to deceive anybody. If you want to twist everything to suit what you want to think, be my guest.
:)
Mike

[davedarragh]

Gee, if you fold the red wire over and tape it off, install a 230V plug, make a 120V adapter outlet & plug, it sure would be a LOT simpler!:eek:

Then IF you needed to use 3-phase, EVERYTHING is internally wired, JUST INSTALL A PLUG! :rolleyes:

Dave

[ASKANDY]

Mike,

I'm glad to see you rewired your machine. The single phase input will now be going into the proper part of the power circuit.

If you sell this machine, Please put the original cord back on... I'd hate to see someone down the line have an issue if they wanted to hook up to other primary sources.

Have fun.

Andy

[Awestech]

Gee, if you fold the red wire over and tape it off, install a 230V plug, make a 120V adapter outlet & plug, it sure would be a LOT simpler!:eek:

Then IF you needed to use 3-phase, EVERYTHING is internally wired, JUST INSTALL A PLUG! :rolleyes:

Dave

Dave you're absolutely right.
I just like the idea of using just the two adapter plugs. The only thing that was difficult about this mod was getting the technical info on the Dynasty inputs and the plugs. The actual replacement of the cable was very simple.
As much as I can know, I'll never want/need to hook it up for three phase; but if I ever do, I'll put the stock cable back on it. If nothing else, it was a fun learning experience.
:)
Mike

[Awestech]

Mike,

I'm glad to see you rewired your machine. The single phase input will now be going into the proper part of the power circuit.

If you sell this machine, Please put the original cord back on... I'd hate to see someone down the line have an issue if they wanted to hook up to other primary sources.

Have fun.

Andy

Andy,
Thanks for your help with my questions and stepping in to tell me I had it wrong the first time. It's great to have people on this board that know these welders backwards and forwards.
Yes, you're absolutely right. If I ever sell the welder I will be sure to put the stock cable back on it and tell the purchaser about the prior modification. As much as Fusionking would like to believe it, I am not about deceiving anyone about anything. If my welder has a problem due to me installing this cable, I will be the first to admit it and take responsibility for the damage.
Thanks again for all your help. :)

Mike

[FusionKing]

Fusionking,
Saving the cord has nothing to do with deceipt or fraud. If you actually read the post that I was responding to, he said "My reasoning is if it has to go back for service it will have the correct lead on it and wired as per the manual, then it wont be a problem for the tech to figure out what has been done" which is what I agree with. If I have to send my welder in for service, I don't want the tech to have to spend an hour trying to figure out why it is wired like that.
And yes, I am thanking Cruizer and Andy and I absolutely agree that they both know exactly what they are talking about. However I also know that they cannot come out and say, "go ahead, do this mod". Electrically, there is absolutely nothing incorrect about the way I have it wired now and they know it. Again, if there is a concrete TECHNICAL reason why it can't be wired this way, other than not being able to use the third phase input, I would really appreciate their input.
And to answer your question; fortunately yes, I am smart enough to repair this machine if I need to, but unfortunately I don't have access to the engineering design documents of this machine like they do. So again, thank you Cruizer and Andy.
So you can continue your ad hominem rant about my character, because it really is entertaining. The people that know me know that I am honest and straight forward and am not looking to deceive anybody. If you want to twist everything to suit what you want to think, be my guest.
:)
Mike

NAA...I don't want to twist it....I don't want to think the worst of you either.
I do still take that post different than what I think you do because I think he was explaining why he did not change the cord. I think you have taken that out of context.
I also see where Andy thought it was usable as well. So that is a good thing in your favor:)
But I don't want any hard feelings. I could have been wrong about you. Time will tell. And even if I did delete my post you quoted it so it is still up. So that would prove nothing. If I over reacted then I will just look worse as time goes on. You don't need my approval anyways and we both know that.
Your set up would not work for me...I would have to still make several pigtails and that would amount to one more connection on many of them. I feel those connections after welding and they are some of the first things to get hot so the fewer the better.
As for believing you would be able to repair it on your own...:rolleyes:...yea right...you couldn't even figure how to wire it on your own.
When I wired my last machine Miller piped up and told me how to do it correctly and I didn't argue or try to re-invent the wheel.
So whatever, maybe we will find common ground somewhere else. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I'm done with it. I hope you enjoy the heck out of your machine and it runs forever:cool: