Dynasty 200DX Problem

[Creepy Jack]

Hi all. New guy here, my name is Jack. A little background: I've been welding since the mid-'90s (mostly MIG and O/A), and got into TIG "for real" a few years back. Took several semesters of TIG specific courses at one of the local community colleges (what they say is true: if you can weld with O/A, you're just a hop, skip and a jump away from TIG), and now, here I am. I mostly perform automotive related work on hot rods and customs.

After a long time scrimping and saving, I finally bought a Dynasty 200DX and the foot controller contractor's kit in July of this year. I love this welder. Except when I have problems with it:

A couple of weeks ago, I decided to crank the machine up to capacity, and see how I well I could weld on thicker material (3/16" hot roll plate scraps), as well as play with the pulse feature. (As I said, I mostly deal with automotive related stuff, so think 18 gauge sheet.) While I was welding, I got a HELP 3 code on the screens, and the machine shut down. OK, I look in the manual, and it's a heat sink overheat, wait for the fan to cool it off. Except that the fan isn't running. So I shut the machine down and go do something else for about an hour. It's cooled off, so I go back to welding. Same thing happens at half the amps, overheat, no fan.

I take my machine to my local authorized Miller Service rep, explain the problem, and I'm on my way. This was two weeks ago.

I get a call from them yesterday afternoon saying that it's ready. I couldn't get over there fast enough this morning!! :D:D They said that they replaced the fan. Cool, I'm good to go.

Anyway, I get home, wire it back up, and get back to what I was doing before, and the same thing happens: no fan. I called my local rep back and told them that it was doing the same thing, so of course, they told me to bring it in on Monday.

I let it cool off again, and cut the amps roughly in half (110), and continued to play with the pulse. Same thing again: no fan.

Has anyone else had cooling problems with their Dynasty 200DX? I did a search and couldn't find anything specific to cooling problems with the Dynasty.

Sorry for the book!!

P.S.: FWIW, it's on a 60 amp 220 volt breaker, and is sitting on the ground in my garage with nothing on either side, and approximately 14" away from the wall, so it's getting plenty of power and plenty of air. I guess I should also mention that my first TIG was a Miller EconoTIG, and my second was a Miller MaxStar STL. I also have a Lincoln SP100 MIG, and a lot of O/A gear.

[turboglenn]

This may be adumb question, but the biggest mistake i see on miller multi-line machines is that people use the red and black for the 2 poles on 220 volt... The red shoud be taped off and isolated for any voltage but 3-Phase...

Check and make sure it's wired correctly, black = power .... White = power & Greeen = ground (Red taped off)

I've heard of bad things happening when people hook them up using the red on single phase 220/115.

[KB Fabrications]

The fan won't come on at all until the internal thermostat reaches a certain temperature. You could conceiveably weld at moderate amperages without the fan ever coming on.

[Creepy Jack]

Turboglen, I'm way ahead of you!! :D:D Got it hooked up right with the red taped off.

KB Fabrications, can you define moderate? It just happened again at 100 amps DC after about 20 minutes (15 minutes total with one smoke break). And no fan running with HELP 3 on the screens. The case itself is warm to the touch (as expected), but not hot.

I know that it's no comparison, but this only ever happened once with my EconoTIG, and it was on a 90 degree day (current temperature here is 64 degrees F), welding 3/16" aluminum. The fan would come pretty regularly with that machine as well.

3/32" thoriated, 3/32" ER70S-2, gas lens, WP-17 torch, if any of that helps.

Some time tomorrow, I'll give it another shot without using pulse and I'll report back.

[Don52]

I have owned my Dynasty 200DX for two years. During that time I have welded for hours on steel and aluminum at various ambient temperatures, currents and duty cycles. The fan turns on when it needs to. I have never had a help 3 error ever. I think that you need to bring the welder back for repair.

[Bodybagger]

Think of how the fan on demand system works...

1:the heat sink must get warm.
2: it has to SENSE the heat sink getting warm.
3: it has to understand that a warm heat sink requires the fan to be turned on.
4: it has to send voltage out to the fan
5: the fan must mechanically operate when voltage is applied to it.


Ok. Step one requires heat. Got it.

Step 2 requires thermistor RT-1 to be working, bonded to the heat sink well enough to get warm, and electrically connected to board PC 3 WELD CONTOL/OPERATOR INTERFACE

Step 3 requires board PC3 WELD CONTOL/OPERATOR INTERFACE to be working and electrically connected to board PC1 INVERTER CONTROL

Step 4 requires board PC1 INVERTER CONTROL to be working properly and electrically connected to the fan

Step 5 requires the fan to work.


Given this necessary order of events to make the fan come on, replacing the fan because it doesn't come on when hot is like replacing the tires on your car because it won't "go" when you stomp on the accelerator. If your car won't roll, tires must be bad, right?

If a new fan doesn't fix it, the problem is with thermistor RT-1, board PC3, board PC1, or the connections between. A good service place would have checked the fan to see if it was broke before replacing it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

But most importantly, any service place should see that they fixed the problem before sending it back to you. Take it somewhere else.

[Bodybagger]

Think of how the fan on demand system works...

1:the heat sink must get warm.
2: it has to SENSE the heat sink getting warm.
3: it has to understand that a warm heat sink requires the fan to be turned on.
4: it has to send voltage out to the fan
5: the fan must mechanically operate when voltage is applied to it.


So the fan NEVER comes on, even when it's hot enough to shut down weld output?

I just thought about it a little more. If you are getting the overheat error, then both thermistor RT1 and board PC3 WELD CONTOL/OPERATOR INTERFACE are probably working correctly since it is sensing the heat.

There are 3 temperature ranges and different ouputs for each.
Cool=no fan but welding OK
warm=turn fan on, welding still OK
hot=keep fan on, too hot to weld - shut down weld power and display error

It could be possible that RT1 is changing resistance so drastically with heat that it essentially "skips" the warm state and thinks it's too hot to weld, but the fan would still come on. So this is not the case.

I'm starting to think your problem is with board PC1 INVERTER CONTROL not outputting voltage to your fan.

Steps 1,2, and 5 seem to be OK. Step 4 is definately not working and step 3 is unknown. 10% chance it's PC3, 80% chance it's PC1, and I'll let Murphy decide what the other 10% is.

[turboglenn]

I would go in and have them fix more thna just teh fan...explained (even print out what bodybagger said and tell them you want those checked thoroughly or you'll not biu another miller welder period!!!

Miller is the most expensive and the dynasty 200dx is supposed to be the best of teh best...Maybe cheack the serial number with the "askandy" colum and see if there's a known issue that might have been overlooked.

These machines cost way too much for a 200 amp unit to be having issues. I love mine and tig for ours on AL, SS, A-36,4130 and so on and my fan just goes on and off...

As a last resort if your warranty was up or just didn't give a crap would be to buy the fan and either wire it to your own stand alone thermister or just put a switch on it and turn it on while you're welding, off when you're not to keep silence.

Best of luck... I hope those guys get it fixed right..

Plus, if you talk to the miller Rep. You MIGHT be able to get a NEW model 200DX with adjustable square, soft square and triangle wave out puts (in hidden menues)

what year is your's?

[Creepy Jack]

Thanks for the responses, guys!! This machine was purchased new at the end of July '08. (According to the serial number chart, this machine was built in January '08) It was another couple of weeks before I could afford the contractor's kit, and had to sell my EconoTIG to get the kit. I haven't used it much because I had mechanical work going on right after I bought it. I bought it from Indiana Oxygen Supply. They had the best price that I could find anywhere (for a couple of years!!), and beat my local Miller dealer by several hundred dollars. (And yes, they seemed a little pissed when I brought my machine to them for repair, but recognized the warranty.)

As far as the repair shop is concerned, I figured they knew what they were doing. It sounded reasonable that they replaced the fan since it wasn't working. Obviously it just wasn't that simple. Bummer.

turboglen, where can I find the askandy column? I searched but didn't find anything.

Bodybagger, no, the fan never comes on. Not ever. I can weld for maybe twenty minutes, with frequent stops, and then the arc quits, the gas post flows for the usual 10 seconds, and then the code comes up.

I guess it'll go back next week. I just hate having to be without it for another couple of weeks. I have work stacked up as it is.

Ha!! I was going to ask who Murphy was, but then I realized that you were referring to the "Law" guy. :D:D:D

[Fishy Jim]

Sounds like they're dinking you around because you didn't buy it from them. Let them know you can find another service center just the same as you found someone else to buy it from. Also let them know if it doesn't work this time, you'll report them to Miller so Miller can deny payment for not fixing the machine on their dime.

There's no way anyone should've allowed it out of service without verifying it was functioning. After all, they'll have a load bank to connect it to for making it "work" hard inducing the fan to come on.

[cruizer]

You know, it doesn't take much for the fan to stop rotating, they are extremely low torque, maybe spin it up by blowing compressed air though it.

Any repair shop can attach a 50K ohm potentiometer to one of the board thermistor inputs to see if it indeed works. There is also a 1 hr prepower check list that all techs have to do to test these machines before they even hit the on switch. The problem usually reveals itself during that.

So saying that. I'd find a new repair outfit. As that fan check is part of the procedure, both during prepower and final load test check. Fan has to come on within 4 minutes on load , so you have a definate problem.

As for the serial#, you can only find the year built not the month, or day it was originally tested. I can though

[FusionKing]

Actually this was the "ask Andy" Forum for years. Then they changed it all around.
Andy does frequent the new motorsports forum nowadays but not like the old days when this was his baby.
I would just call Miller myself ...there are phone #'s in your manual and on this forum and tell them your troubles and ask them what to do next.
They do not want to see you having trouble trying to make a living using their products.
Cruizer's advice is gospel...he IS a Miller repair man...I would do whatever he told me.;)
Too bad you got an LWS with a lame repair shop:(:(:mad:

[Creepy Jack]

Update: So, a friend of mine bought a motorcycle last week, and got it fairly inexpensively because there was a crack in the frame near one of the rear axle plates.

He tore it down, I took my Dynasty over to his place and welded it up.

(Before anyone asks, we cut the frame 1.5" ahead of the crack, beveled and squared/cleaned up all of the joints, drilled holes for rosette welds .5" away from the joints, inserted another piece of tube into the frame [the frame tube is 1" OD x 1/8" wall, so the slug tube is 3/4" OD x 1/8" wall], reinserted the previously cut piece of frame tube, clamped everything together, tacked, and then welded, rosettes first. We had it all back together and we both rode it a bit before I came home last night. Worked out great!!)

Obviously, I didn't weld it all in one shot, and I didn't use pulse, but it didn't shut down on me at all yesterday. I used approximately 125-150 amps for the whole thing. No fan, either, but I expect that's because the ambient temperature was less than 70 degrees (closer to 60 degrees where I was). The case never got warm at all.

Thanks for all of the replies!!! I'll call Miller this week and ask them what I ought to do. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to shipping it to another repair facility, or to a regional repair center if I have to, just to get it fixed right.

[Creepy Jack]

Minor update:

A friend of a friend has a 200DX, so I had my friend ask if there were any fan issues. The response was that the friend's welder gets pushed past it's duty cycle, and does shut down, but other than that, no fan issues.

[cruizer]

That fan has to come on with in 4 minutes, Heck I have them sitting here with the power on no load and the fan turns on

[Creepy Jack]

All I hear when I turn mine on is just the inverter working, I guess. No fan sound, and no air movement fore or aft of the machine.

[araspitfire]

My new (bought in Europe) 200DX has the fan come on even if I'm welding 50A pulsed 30% 20%... Or 150A non pulsed... after a few seconds... generally about after an inch of weld or so...

It's kind of distracting, and I figure it's not due to heat, but I guess I'd rather too much than too little...

Al...

[Creepy Jack]

araspitfire, this is helpful. If it's loud enough to be distracting to you, then it ought to be loud enough for me to hear at all. I'll be calling Miller in the morning.

[Creepy Jack]

OK, I just spoke with Miller and the repair shop that Miller directed me to. I'll be shipping it on Wednesday (my car is broken down at the moment), and should have it back about a week or so after they get it.

I spoke with the shop's tech, and he seemed very friendly and knowledgeable.

Oh yeah, overheated it again last night. No surprise, though. :D:D

[turboglenn]

Any updates? Hopefully all is well....

I still would have tried to meet your local miller rep, take him to lunch, show him the weldor and explain that this is costing you money and as much as you heard about this awesome machine and how much you really do enjoy using it, that compared to the issues you're having you may have to go to an invertec 205 just to be safe...with that i'm sure you could have talked him into a complete replacement (assuming you like many of us depend on that machine for rent/mortgage, car payment, good business practice etc....)

I would have expressed how I've always been a "blue fan" and with just a slight mention (not a threat) to maybe go to "another color" if this machine gives you one more issue at all (act more dissapointed than angry... :D ) I bet you can get the new model that came out after july-08 with a few more beautifull goodies in the hidden menues, not to mention better arc starting at alow amps (maybe that's another thing to bring up) i tried getting mine replaced as if it weren't for the fact it was on the shelft for too long before it sold that i would have had the "latest model", but they are too dilly dally at my supplier.... So now i carry some business to praxair/airgas and although i'm not mean about it i just explain that for teh moeny i've spent there I expected a little moreconcern towards my needs and the udnerstanding that for what i spent i didn't want the "old model" that's been collecting dust for months.

I'm not saying try to con or rip them off, but If it were me ( and i was an automotive parts supplier rep for years selling, shipping and warranty'ing were my duties...customer satisfaction was my bottom line).

I personally took care of my customers and people that were civil about the discussion when there were issues. I can't tell you how many shortblocks, trannies and complete body panels i got my customers to show them that their problem did mean something to me when something i sold them went bad (especially more than once), and they all came back for years and years and some to this day call me for parts knwoing i'm not even in the field anymore...

Maybe i'm just rambling, butit's late, and i'm notonly stuck on the fact that my supplier didn't take care of me after years of faithfull purchasing and recomendations but even more stuck on the fact that i want to see some one get the "new dynasty"

TO see the features 'm talking about, go download a 200dx manual and don't put in a serial #, then compare that to your manual.

[Creepy Jack]

Hey, thanks for asking!! They received my machine on Friday, so hopefully I'll hear something this week.

I'm with you on the customer service issue. Anything that I build or repair gets my own personal satisfaction guarantee. I always tell my clients/customers that if they're unhappy in any way with my work that I'll fix whatever is wrong, period. My reputation is more important to me.

As far as my machine is concerned, mostly I just want it fixed and running right. Yeah, it would be neat to get a brand new one with all the latest bells and whistles, but I would really just like to get back to work. :D

[Creepy Jack]

Update: I just spoke with the tech that is working on my machine. When he first was looking at the machine, he said that the cover looked like it was a little concave over the top of the machine over the top of the screens, so it looked like maybe it wasn't put back on right. He pulled the cover off, load tested it, and the fan came on just fine. When he put the cover back on, the fan locked up. In other words, the chassis and plenum are bent just enough to effect the fan, because the machine was apparently dropped at some point.

Now, before everyone blames the original tech that I took the machine to, remember that the fan wasn't working before I took it to them. (Granted, they obviously didn't test it before handing it back to me, and didn't bother to make any observations about the general condition of the internals and the chassis, but that's an entirely separate issue.)

Apparently, it was mishandled by UPS between the seller's warehouse and my doorstep. The drag is that I had no idea that there was any problem at all with the machine for the first month that I owned it, because I didn't have a torch or a pedal for it. Essentially, it sat in my living room behind one of my easy chairs with the cover on it until I could afford the contractor's kit. The original packing material was intact, as was the box, when I received it, nor was there any damage to the case, so there was no reason for me to believe that there would have been any general damage to the machine.

Needless to say the Miller warranty doesn't cover physical damage, and it's too late to make a claim with UPS. Expensive lesson learned. I'm looking at about $450 labor plus return shipping. At least it will come back in good, working order, and I'm also pretty grateful that the PC boards weren't affected.

[FusionKing]

$450 Labor:confused: What all did they check for that kinda money???
I would'a thot there would have been a flat rate for the diagnoses.
I hate to throw salt on a wound, but sheesh man... something don't sound right to me.

[Creepy Jack]

Sorry, forgot to mention the reason for the labor charges. That's the estimated cost for the tech straightening out the chassis and the plenum, or possibly replacing the plenum. I'll probably know more tomorrow. The diagnosis, load testing, etc., was all covered under warranty. It's the physical damage stuff that they won't cover.

I've filed a claim with UPS (seeing as how this problem obviously occurred before I ever plugged the machine in), and I'll be sending the retailer an email tomorrow. If I can get anything out of it, I'd really like what ever I wind up paying out of pocket for repairs reimbursed. Of course, if they offer to replace my machine, that wouldn't be horrible.

[engnerdan]

Good luck with UPS, they smashed the crap out of the side of my Dynasty a month and a half ago to the tune of $425 and I am still waiting for the B@#$#$ds to come inspect it.

-Dan

[Creepy Jack]

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they made you wait as long as they do to try and get you to drop it. I can wait.

[Creepy Jack]

Update: I should be getting my welder back today. I spoke with the tech on Tuesday, and they shipped it the same day. And the total cost, including return shipping, was less than the original estimate at $350. So that's good.

I spoke with UPS this morning, and they basically didn't want to hear about any of it, because I no longer have the original packaging, and because I "waited so long" to file a claim. Apparently everything happens lickety split for the fine folks at UPS, except delivery and customer service.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions. I should be able to get back to work shortly. :D:D

[Creepy Jack]

Final update: It works!! I just welded with my fully functional Miller Dynasty 200DX. The fan came on while I was pulsing, just as it should. Thanks again, everyone.

[Reed]

Folks,

My Dynasty 200 has been overheating (HEL 3, HEL 5) for several years and getting worse. It had damage in shipment to the dealer and I figured they fixed it as it worked ok so I accepted it. Now it overheats on 100 A. AC TIGging aluminum.

I do a search and find Jack's posting. Humm, I wonder. So I pull the cover off and the fan "looks" a bit jammed as the side against the wind tunnel heatsinks. I give the fan a spin and it is rubbing. Looking closer I see the fan housing is cracked. I'm guessing during operation the heat distortion causes the fan to lock up giving me the time variability of the shutdowns. :-(

Whether it was damaged in the initial shipping damage, I'll never know for sure, but I'll always wonder. I told them I wanted a new one and not a repaired one, but that insisted that this was _my_ welder now and the shipping company is paying to fix it. I caved in, crap! And I bought local instead of the cheaper (400+) Internet price. oh, well . . .

Anyway, thought I'd add my story to this as this thread got me looking at my machine.

- Reed
Raleigh, NC